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i've seen you be half a million dollars

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up

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dollars what do you got on you

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nothing

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that's john goodman the gambler 2014 and

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that has to be probably one of the

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greatest skeptico movie clips

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of all time and if you are struggling

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which you might be once you get to the

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end of the show to try and figure out

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how that fits with my upcoming very

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excellent interview with joe atwell and

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our first of what i hope will be an

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ongoing series of dialogues about

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caesar's messiah 2.0 well if you're

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wondering how this fits well then you're

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probably going to have to keep wondering

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here's a clip from the upcoming

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interview

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i'm not going to legitimize your

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misrepresentation of the facts

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by agreeing to disagree i don't like to

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the point where we simply agree to

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disagree if i

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you know had a philosophy it would be

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the socratic method you don't try to win

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but you don't try to shy away from

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difficult subjects either

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i think a lot of times the expression is

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used just because someone either feels

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they're going to lose

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or they are simply you know dislike the

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individual that that they're exchanging

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with they just want to end the you know

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the conversation

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okay and because i'm always about level

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three

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put away nothing

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you hit up two and a half million

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dollars any [\h__\h] in the world knows

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what to do you get a house with a

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25-year roof an indestructible [\h__\h]

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economy [\h__\h] box you put the rest into

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the system of three to five percent to

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pay your taxes and that's your base get

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me that's your fortress of [\h__\h]

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solitude and that puts you for the rest

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of your life at a level of [\h__\h] you

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somebody wants you to do something [\h__\h]

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you boss pisses you off a wise man's

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life is based around [\h__\h] you the united

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states of america is based on [\h__\h] you

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you're a king

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you have an army greatest navy in the

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history of the world [\h__\h] you blow me

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this is the grandson of the 17th richest

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man in california

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does he drink what he wants i have a

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beer just like anybody else thank you

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what kind

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any kind you got 37 beers don't [\h__\h]

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put it on me

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what do you want to be able to say to me

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[\h__\h] you

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thanks for indulging me i have a great

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interview with the excellent joe atwell

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welcome to skeptica where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers

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and their critics i'm your host alex

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sacaris and today we welcome back joseph

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atwell to skeptico

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if you've listened to this show a little

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bit then you know that joe

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is one of my

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favorite guests somebody i really

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respect and has

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really

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in some very important ways

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has been a significant influence to my

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worldview as i've been going along and

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doing these skeptico interviews so joe

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of course is the author of caesar's

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messiah the roman conspiracy to invent

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jesus

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a book that had really i think a very

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very big impact on biblical scholars

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historians as well as just a ton of

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average everyday people who read the

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book and were

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just incredibly impressed blown away

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like i was by

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the research

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this is basically

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a testament to the

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one man can make a difference kind of

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theory

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which is kind of an interesting point in

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history because that's being debated in

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history right now even when you think of

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all the great figures in history it

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shouldn't be a debate that you know one

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person can make a difference well in a

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smaller way but in a very significant

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way

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joe researching on his own not with a

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team of

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oxford phd candidates who are running

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around and doing all his research for

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him or anything like that

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on his own came up with a very unique

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analysis based on his research which he

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documents in the book of the conspiracy

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or the alleged conspiracy that might

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exist between the roman empire and the

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creation of the christian church so

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just to kind of further

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wrap up this story because i have had

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joe on several times ever since i talked

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to joe

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it's been one of my missions because it

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was so significant to me

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to really continue to test his theory

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and my way of testing is interviewing

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other people so at this point i've

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interviewed

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oh

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a lot uh five ten

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world-class biblical scholars people

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with phds

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teaching positions at major universities

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written books and i always bring up the

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caesar's messiah theory and not everyone

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agrees

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but no one's able to counter it in any

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significant way and i've also found that

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that's really the way to tell whether or

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not somebody has the goods

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it's not whether everyone agrees with

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them

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it's whether they can

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put up a better counter argument and i

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still haven't heard one and i

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i always have to add as a caveat

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joe and i take

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his groundbreaking fundamental paradigm

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shifting research in some significantly

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different ways so i don't want to sound

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like i'm contradicting myself because i

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don't agree with joe and everything and

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that might be part of our discussion

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here but the the paradigm shift that he

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has brought to us

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by really combining

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a deep deep understanding of conspiracy

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and conspiracy science if we could even

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say that social engineering

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parapolitical how that has always been

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in play

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and the enormous impact it can have on

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history and institutions and

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with

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the structure of our society as we

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understand it well

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joe's unique understanding of that is

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just phenomenal and that's why

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i'm sorry to go on and on but that's why

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i'm so excited to have you back and to

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connect with you again joe so thanks for

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being here i'm really looking forward to

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this

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wow thank you alex um

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i uh after that introduction maybe i

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should just not say anything for the

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rest of the show now thank you so much

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that's very kind of you um

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yeah i mean uh the caesar's messiah has

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really been a strange um

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sort of academic phenomena because

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it it has become more and more popular

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through time um most of the you know

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like the typical academic research

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books

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fade

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um but siege of messiah just gets more

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and more popular and this is simply

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because

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um

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you know it it just is a very strong

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argument and people can can understand

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it a lot of the um

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new testament scholarship uh like the

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classic mythicism concepts you know are

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plausible but they're so esoteric so

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hard to understand that it's hard for me

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to imagine the public would ever

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change their opinion regarding the

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historicity or

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you know the origins of christianity

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with with that kind of analysis

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but the analysis in caesar's messiah is

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different in that

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i would describe it basically as

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archaeologic in other words

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um

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in at its core i don't really get

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involved that much with

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you know the the system that i've

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discovered i simply present the system i

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simply lay the text side by side

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and just ask the reader to make up their

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own mind whether or not there's

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dependency and since in my opinion this

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is just completely obvious that that one

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story the story of jesus is based on

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this other story tip to stern um then

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the the conclusion

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you know that i reached that it is a

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typologic story that it actually is a

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roman

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caesar vanity piece um you know these

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things become more and more self-evident

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but

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it it um

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it always uh surprises me i suppose uh

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even at this point uh you know how how

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popular the book has been and is and

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this just as an example this month was

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the highest selling sales month of the

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book

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20 years after i brought it out so

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it seems like it has a life and uh

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and and of course now with uh with our

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current situation in which

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the government

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is you know restricting us taking away

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civil liberties the the skeptical aspect

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of my analysis i think is very useful

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for people

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um because it becomes a platform with

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from which you can sort of

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create some

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sort of plausible conjectures about uh

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the rationale that the governments have

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for for the lockdowns which uh perhaps

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we'll talk about later but

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uh i am you know very opposed to

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right so you know there's a couple of

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different points there the connection

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between

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this work caesar's messiah and in

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particular

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the speculation on your part that there

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was a conspiracy

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a parapolitical

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political psyop going on

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by the romans and it was using religion

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and the deepest beliefs the deepest

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spiritual beliefs that people had about

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who they are and how they should live

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their lives that it was trying to

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manipulate those in order to bring about

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their political goals

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is i think what really resonates through

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time as you're saying so we look at that

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and we go oh my god if joe is right

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and

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the romans were that adept at playing

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the game way back then

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then

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what can we even imagine is going on now

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in terms of that game playing so there's

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there's really a lot to to kind of dive

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into and

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as i was explaining to you in the email

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i've made it kind of my mission in the

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last six months to really do a rebooting

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of caesar's messiah 2.0 in my own way so

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it's not really the caesar's messiah

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that you're familiar with because i'm

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kind of taking it in some other

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directions

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i'm very interested in for example

284
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josephus and more of the jews and his

285
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attempted

286
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political psy app that is vespasian

287
00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:03,600
through josephus to tell the jews that

288
00:11:09,030 --> 00:11:05,920
hey you know what this bayesian is the

289
00:11:10,069 --> 00:11:09,040
messiah the spazian is who was always

290
00:11:11,430 --> 00:11:10,079
you know

291
00:11:14,310 --> 00:11:11,440
was was the one who was always

292
00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:14,320
prophesized you don't need judaism just

293
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i see that really as

294
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kind of

295
00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:20,480
caesar's messiah 1.0 you know that was

296
00:11:26,069 --> 00:11:23,200
the first attempt at that but here i am

297
00:11:27,670 --> 00:11:26,079
getting into a lot of details like i i i

298
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want to kind of pull that back off the

299
00:11:31,030 --> 00:11:29,760
table and not even go there because i

300
00:11:32,790 --> 00:11:31,040
think

301
00:11:35,910 --> 00:11:32,800
that's a discussion we need to have we

302
00:11:37,509 --> 00:11:35,920
need to spend an hour on that i almost

303
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:37,519
feel like joe

304
00:11:41,110 --> 00:11:39,040
and we were talking about this a little

305
00:11:42,550 --> 00:11:41,120
bit before we kind of turned on the

306
00:11:44,630 --> 00:11:42,560
record button

307
00:11:47,269 --> 00:11:44,640
if you're up for it

308
00:11:48,150 --> 00:11:47,279
we might even use this interview to kind

309
00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:48,160
of

310
00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:52,160
sketch out some potential areas for

311
00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:54,959
further dialogues between us so that

312
00:11:59,110 --> 00:11:57,920
people can get kind of a fuller picture

313
00:12:01,269 --> 00:11:59,120
of this

314
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:01,279
world view that we're trying to develop

315
00:12:04,550 --> 00:12:03,040
how does that sound

316
00:12:07,509 --> 00:12:04,560
i think it's a great idea it couldn't be

317
00:12:11,430 --> 00:12:07,519
more timely okay well if you're on board

318
00:12:12,870 --> 00:12:11,440
then you know i'd almost start with this

319
00:12:14,389 --> 00:12:12,880
and that is

320
00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:14,399
process

321
00:12:18,870 --> 00:12:17,200
so if we were going to engage in this

322
00:12:20,470 --> 00:12:18,880
dialogue and you engage in these

323
00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:20,480
dialogues all the time one thing that's

324
00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:23,279
great about you is you are so open and

325
00:12:28,629 --> 00:12:26,720
so just out there in terms of

326
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:28,639
sharing ideas

327
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:32,399
genuinely openly give and take if people

328
00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:34,320
come against you and you handle that

329
00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:37,360
with grace and yet you still make your

330
00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:39,120
points and i think that's pop i think

331
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:42,320
that's unbelievably terrific i'm not an

332
00:12:48,470 --> 00:12:44,959
academic so it's a little easier for me

333
00:12:53,509 --> 00:12:51,430
i don't know i've spoken i've spoken

334
00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:53,519
my point is is that i think a lot of

335
00:12:57,430 --> 00:12:55,519
individuals you know it's a very low

336
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:57,440
resource environment new testament

337
00:13:01,269 --> 00:12:58,560
scholarship

338
00:13:03,829 --> 00:13:01,279
and so many of people i think you know

339
00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:03,839
are there they struggle with the idea of

340
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:05,680
like this this book from a non-epic

341
00:13:09,910 --> 00:13:07,440
academic is so successful

342
00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:09,920
and so it's harder for them to um to be

343
00:13:12,629 --> 00:13:11,120
you know just sort of open and

344
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:12,639
clear-minded whereas

345
00:13:18,310 --> 00:13:15,839
um i actually enjoy um

346
00:13:20,550 --> 00:13:18,320
criticism of it i i find it to be you

347
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:20,560
know these are for me it's it's more fun

348
00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:22,399
than just having so it's

349
00:13:26,230 --> 00:13:24,480
uh you know i think i'm i it's very

350
00:13:27,590 --> 00:13:26,240
gracious of you for to describe me like

351
00:13:29,509 --> 00:13:27,600
that but actually it's act it's just

352
00:13:31,590 --> 00:13:29,519
simply more fun to uh

353
00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:31,600
have someone that is critical than than

354
00:13:35,990 --> 00:13:33,200
someone that simply wants to re you know

355
00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:36,000
go over the theory i totally agree and i

356
00:13:39,910 --> 00:13:37,839
say that to people and people i swear

357
00:13:40,949 --> 00:13:39,920
when i say that joe people look at me

358
00:13:43,269 --> 00:13:40,959
like

359
00:13:45,269 --> 00:13:43,279
i'm of a different species or something

360
00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:45,279
like that when i say i love when i'm

361
00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:46,560
proven wrong

362
00:13:52,069 --> 00:13:50,240
i'm learning something i'm moving

363
00:13:54,389 --> 00:13:52,079
forward and why would i want to go

364
00:13:56,710 --> 00:13:54,399
forward with ideas that are you know

365
00:14:00,069 --> 00:13:56,720
incorrect or can easily be

366
00:14:02,710 --> 00:14:00,079
countered great so in that sense in that

367
00:14:05,189 --> 00:14:02,720
spirit i welcome that kind of debate in

368
00:14:06,550 --> 00:14:05,199
the same same way that you do

369
00:14:09,110 --> 00:14:06,560
but one thing i want to throw out there

370
00:14:10,629 --> 00:14:09,120
because this i caught in the interview i

371
00:14:12,870 --> 00:14:10,639
was just mentioning before that you did

372
00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:12,880
with mo on the gnostic warrior podcast

373
00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:14,560
which i really enjoyed and mo just had

374
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:16,560
me on the show but you guys got to a

375
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:19,440
point and you said hey you know and

376
00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:22,320
agree to disagree we have to be open to

377
00:14:27,110 --> 00:14:24,480
agreeing to disagree and you are a nice

378
00:14:29,910 --> 00:14:27,120
guy and i can be a nice guy i don't know

379
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:29,920
if i really am a nice guy but this agree

380
00:14:34,629 --> 00:14:32,240
to disagree thing is something that

381
00:14:36,710 --> 00:14:34,639
drives me kind of nuts

382
00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:36,720
and i would throw that on the table

383
00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:38,800
first thing is

384
00:14:45,269 --> 00:14:41,839
in this dialogue and in the dialogues

385
00:14:48,389 --> 00:14:45,279
that we might do in the future

386
00:14:50,629 --> 00:14:48,399
let's not agree to disagree i i when i

387
00:14:52,949 --> 00:14:50,639
hear that i always think of the

388
00:14:54,389 --> 00:14:52,959
interview i had with the skeptic

389
00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:54,399
michael shermer

390
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:56,880
who i consider a friend of me in every

391
00:15:02,790 --> 00:14:59,279
sense of the word i genuinely like

392
00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:02,800
michael i enjoy talking to him and i

393
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:05,760
definitely consider him an enemy

394
00:15:10,870 --> 00:15:08,320
he's certainly an enemy when it comes to

395
00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:10,880
intellectual honesty and enemy when it

396
00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:13,519
comes to good science an enemy when it

397
00:15:17,430 --> 00:15:14,560
comes to

398
00:15:19,110 --> 00:15:17,440
being kind of a bullshitter but

399
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:19,120
nonetheless so

400
00:15:23,670 --> 00:15:21,760
just a quick story and then i'll stop

401
00:15:25,269 --> 00:15:23,680
stealing the mic here but i was

402
00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:25,279
interviewing michael about a book he'd

403
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:26,399
written

404
00:15:29,749 --> 00:15:28,880
it the book was uh it was heavens on

405
00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:29,759
earth

406
00:15:34,710 --> 00:15:32,480
the scientific search for the afterlife

407
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:34,720
immortality and utopia this is michael's

408
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:35,519
book

409
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:41,040
happen to know a great deal about which

410
00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:43,360
is near death experience science

411
00:15:47,670 --> 00:15:44,880
and the only reason i know about it is

412
00:15:49,749 --> 00:15:47,680
because i've interviewed about 50 or 100

413
00:15:51,269 --> 00:15:49,759
scientists who've actually done

414
00:15:52,949 --> 00:15:51,279
research and published it in

415
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:52,959
peer-reviewed journals

416
00:15:57,590 --> 00:15:55,440
on this topic and michael had completely

417
00:15:58,949 --> 00:15:57,600
botched the research in some rather

418
00:16:00,629 --> 00:15:58,959
obvious ways

419
00:16:02,230 --> 00:16:00,639
and i called him on it

420
00:16:03,030 --> 00:16:02,240
and i further called him on the fact

421
00:16:05,350 --> 00:16:03,040
that

422
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:05,360
one of the most prominent researchers a

423
00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:07,680
guy named dr pinvallamo

424
00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:09,920
was a cardiologist

425
00:16:15,430 --> 00:16:11,440
had was so

426
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:15,440
infuriated by michael's mishandling of

427
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:18,720
the data the scientific data that he

428
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:20,880
called him out publicly and said you're

429
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:23,120
misrepresenting what i said

430
00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:25,040
and michael was like well

431
00:16:28,949 --> 00:16:27,040
i guess we'll just agree to disagree on

432
00:16:32,389 --> 00:16:28,959
that and then he said that to me well i

433
00:16:34,389 --> 00:16:32,399
guess alex will just agree to disagree

434
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:34,399
and it's like

435
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:35,360
no

436
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:38,880
i i awesome joe and i i do think

437
00:16:43,269 --> 00:16:40,880
that it's worth talking a little bit

438
00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:43,279
about these kind of process things the

439
00:16:48,550 --> 00:16:46,560
process of the dialogue things because

440
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:48,560
i do feel like they're lacking a lot of

441
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:50,959
times and they slip by in some subtle

442
00:16:55,110 --> 00:16:53,279
ways that people don't realize and again

443
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:55,120
it's this kind of

444
00:17:00,310 --> 00:16:57,680
social conditioning social reinforcement

445
00:17:02,150 --> 00:17:00,320
oh it's always good to agree to disagree

446
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:02,160
it's so here's another one

447
00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:04,640
respect my beliefs

448
00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:07,360
why would i want to respect your beliefs

449
00:17:11,110 --> 00:17:09,520
isn't that why i mean it's some i i get

450
00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:11,120
it on on one level right i don't want to

451
00:17:17,029 --> 00:17:13,439
sound like a total contrarian you know

452
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:17,039
on a deeper human spiritual level

453
00:17:22,949 --> 00:17:21,120
absolutely 100 i i respect you i respect

454
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:22,959
and i respect everything you've done i

455
00:17:29,830 --> 00:17:26,319
also respect you intellectually based on

456
00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:29,840
your track record so i am liable to give

457
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:30,880
more

458
00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:33,039
leeway to your beliefs but at the end of

459
00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:36,480
the day i enter into the dialogue not

460
00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:39,520
respecting your beliefs and not asking

461
00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:42,000
you to respect my beliefs i mean that's

462
00:17:48,230 --> 00:17:45,280
what we're supposed to figure out right

463
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:48,240
yeah and uh i also don't like when

464
00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:51,280
this perspective is used as propaganda

465
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:53,200
in other words the idea of keep calm and

466
00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:54,480
carry on

467
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:57,120
um you know being given by you know

468
00:18:02,150 --> 00:18:00,080
mainstream media during a time when uh

469
00:18:05,909 --> 00:18:02,160
you know nefarious activity could

470
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:05,919
require citizens to uh take action

471
00:18:10,950 --> 00:18:07,919
stand up exactly

472
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:10,960
and so i'm really you know when whenever

473
00:18:15,270 --> 00:18:12,640
i i hear

474
00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:15,280
you know kind of what what what

475
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:16,880
should be

476
00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:19,600
trajectories leading

477
00:18:23,750 --> 00:18:22,080
to conclusions that might inspire

478
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:23,760
political activity

479
00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:26,640
when i see it being hijacked

480
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:28,640
with the idea of

481
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:31,280
you know non-violent communication keeps

482
00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:33,280
us from moving down this path here's

483
00:18:36,870 --> 00:18:35,360
another direction and it always it

484
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:36,880
always goes back to a kind of

485
00:18:41,350 --> 00:18:38,880
psychological condition

486
00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:41,360
you know that's that is a way of living

487
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:42,720
that some people

488
00:18:46,230 --> 00:18:44,160
may find

489
00:18:48,870 --> 00:18:46,240
you know valuable but

490
00:18:51,029 --> 00:18:48,880
uh is it is certainly not appropriate uh

491
00:18:53,029 --> 00:18:51,039
in in our present moment when when you

492
00:18:55,270 --> 00:18:53,039
have so many you know actions from

493
00:18:57,110 --> 00:18:55,280
governments that are restraining freedom

494
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:57,120
this is when we really you know we we

495
00:19:01,830 --> 00:19:00,240
cannot have as our perspective that well

496
00:19:03,350 --> 00:19:01,840
you know we're just going to you know we

497
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:03,360
may not agree with what the government

498
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:04,480
is doing but we're simply going to

499
00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:05,679
respect

500
00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:07,919
and uh stay calm and we'll just carry on

501
00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:10,160
with our lives as best we can i mean

502
00:19:16,230 --> 00:19:12,640
this is when you really want to uh not

503
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:16,240
only you know to to agree to uh disagree

504
00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:18,640
and to keep thinking and keep talking

505
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:20,480
and you have to you know agree to

506
00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:22,320
socratic method at this point and not

507
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:23,440
just

508
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:27,760
out it's too complicated or it's uh i

509
00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:29,120
have to be

510
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:31,919
too you know visible as a personality or

511
00:19:36,830 --> 00:19:33,600
whatever you know this is when you need

512
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:36,840
courage and and that's encourages

513
00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:40,480
is what will move the kind of discussion

514
00:19:45,590 --> 00:19:42,080
you're talking about forward you've got

515
00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:45,600
to have courage and so you know when uh

516
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:48,080
when we when we discuss uh i think we'll

517
00:19:53,909 --> 00:19:51,520
both find it's you know it will be um

518
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:53,919
uh you know it'll be a process that'll

519
00:19:58,870 --> 00:19:56,000
be enjoyable and hopefully will provide

520
00:20:00,950 --> 00:19:58,880
courage for the people who listen to it

521
00:20:03,110 --> 00:20:00,960
well the other way this respect my

522
00:20:04,789 --> 00:20:03,120
beliefs thing comes up of course you've

523
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:04,799
run into this time and time again

524
00:20:08,710 --> 00:20:06,880
because you've been at this

525
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:08,720
caesar's messiah thing you've been the

526
00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:10,559
pioneer out there with the arrows in

527
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:13,120
your front and the arrows in the back

528
00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:15,679
because you do get stabbed in the back

529
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:17,600
but

530
00:20:22,710 --> 00:20:20,640
when it comes to these deeper beliefs we

531
00:20:24,950 --> 00:20:22,720
are conditioned to believe that we

532
00:20:27,110 --> 00:20:24,960
should respect someone's religious

533
00:20:29,029 --> 00:20:27,120
beliefs certainly

534
00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:29,039
and that the freedom of expression of

535
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:31,760
religion carries with it this idea that

536
00:20:35,430 --> 00:20:33,440
we should respect

537
00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:35,440
their religious beliefs

538
00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:38,000
i don't agree with that i don't think we

539
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:40,000
should respect people's christian

540
00:20:45,590 --> 00:20:42,960
beliefs muslims muslim beliefs atheistic

541
00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:45,600
beliefs satanistic beliefs i think we

542
00:20:49,830 --> 00:20:47,600
should challenge them and and this is

543
00:20:51,990 --> 00:20:49,840
something really that the atheists and i

544
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:52,000
don't have a lot of nice things to say

545
00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:53,280
about

546
00:20:57,750 --> 00:20:55,600
the atheists as a group but i do have

547
00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:57,760
some nice things to say and one of the

548
00:21:02,630 --> 00:20:59,840
things that they made clear

549
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:02,640
you know 20 years ago with the whole

550
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:05,280
dawkins uh kind of new atheist kind of

551
00:21:12,390 --> 00:21:08,799
thing was that these are ideas that have

552
00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:12,400
to stand up in the public forum on par

553
00:21:18,070 --> 00:21:14,640
with all the other beliefs we have and

554
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:18,080
you can't run and hide behind the idea

555
00:21:23,909 --> 00:21:20,400
that no one should pick on you because

556
00:21:28,950 --> 00:21:26,549
absolutely in fact it's it's completely

557
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:28,960
incoherent if you want to have religious

558
00:21:33,750 --> 00:21:30,799
beliefs which is to say

559
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:33,760
uh broadly socially important in terms

560
00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:37,120
of you know perspective on existence

561
00:21:41,510 --> 00:21:39,840
then axiomatic to that is uh you have to

562
00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:41,520
become public and accept public

563
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,720
criticism

564
00:21:46,630 --> 00:21:44,400
and you you this is just clear and

565
00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:46,640
that's that's one really you know

566
00:21:51,029 --> 00:21:49,600
uh gonna praise you here you you do such

567
00:21:54,149 --> 00:21:51,039
a good job of this

568
00:21:55,510 --> 00:21:54,159
of uh encouraging your positions to be

569
00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:55,520
criticized i've listened to a lot of

570
00:22:00,149 --> 00:21:58,080
your shows and and uh so this is you

571
00:22:01,830 --> 00:22:00,159
know it's this is how public people

572
00:22:03,909 --> 00:22:01,840
should behave you know and how how we

573
00:22:05,909 --> 00:22:03,919
should carry out and gee you know it's

574
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:05,919
like think of how long we've known each

575
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:07,520
other who would have thought at the

576
00:22:10,710 --> 00:22:09,360
beginning we'd be where we are now

577
00:22:13,029 --> 00:22:10,720
politically

578
00:22:14,710 --> 00:22:13,039
you know it's it's all the more

579
00:22:15,669 --> 00:22:14,720
uh you know it's it's more important

580
00:22:17,669 --> 00:22:15,679
than ever

581
00:22:20,230 --> 00:22:17,679
to try to get this this perspective that

582
00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:20,240
the perspective of criticism and uh

583
00:22:26,230 --> 00:22:23,360
skepticism uh out there you you chose a

584
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:26,240
really good title for your uh your show

585
00:22:29,350 --> 00:22:27,840
very timely in terms of our current

586
00:22:31,110 --> 00:22:29,360
political world

587
00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:31,120
you know it's funny you should say that

588
00:22:37,669 --> 00:22:35,200
because on one hand i totally understand

589
00:22:39,590 --> 00:22:37,679
what you're saying i agree with it at a

590
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:39,600
level that kind of

591
00:22:44,789 --> 00:22:41,679
shakes me to my core i never would have

592
00:22:48,549 --> 00:22:44,799
imagined we'd be where we are now never

593
00:22:51,430 --> 00:22:48,559
would have contemplated it uh any one of

594
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:51,440
our generation it just was

595
00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:54,640
inconceivable that you know the the bill

596
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:57,120
of rights the constitution would just be

597
00:23:02,149 --> 00:22:59,840
pulled apart piece by piece and everyone

598
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:02,159
would just be cheering its demise you

599
00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:03,679
know like but

600
00:23:09,990 --> 00:23:06,720
i i res at the same time i feel that i

601
00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:10,000
resist going there you know because we

602
00:23:16,789 --> 00:23:13,360
are just where we are and i love that

603
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:16,799
that you are fully engaged in

604
00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:18,960
everything that's come about

605
00:23:23,669 --> 00:23:21,440
partially as a result of this book that

606
00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:23,679
you wrote 20 years ago

607
00:23:28,390 --> 00:23:25,840
strange that that caesar's messiah would

608
00:23:31,029 --> 00:23:28,400
end up being somehow related in in my

609
00:23:33,270 --> 00:23:31,039
opinion useful to uh

610
00:23:36,470 --> 00:23:33,280
you know the the political conditions

611
00:23:40,149 --> 00:23:36,480
imposed by medical exactly exactly

612
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:40,159
exactly and and your work since then

613
00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:42,320
i mean i think people hopefully people

614
00:23:46,390 --> 00:23:44,080
are listening to this show know this but

615
00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:46,400
in case they don't it's not like you've

616
00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:47,600
stopped

617
00:23:51,909 --> 00:23:50,480
you've continued to move on and

618
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:51,919
there's many new issues that you

619
00:23:56,070 --> 00:23:54,240
actually wrote a book on shakespearean

620
00:23:58,230 --> 00:23:56,080
with similar kind of connections

621
00:23:59,590 --> 00:23:58,240
hypotheses and stuff like that but you

622
00:24:01,990 --> 00:23:59,600
know i always credit you with the one

623
00:24:05,029 --> 00:24:02,000
who turned me on to the glorious

624
00:24:07,029 --> 00:24:05,039
steinham lifetime player kind of thing

625
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:07,039
which is incredibly important in

626
00:24:12,070 --> 00:24:10,400
understanding the parapolitical and how

627
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:12,080
things are so you

628
00:24:15,909 --> 00:24:14,080
multiple multiple you know you alluded

629
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:15,919
to in the interview i just heard and i

630
00:24:20,149 --> 00:24:17,520
have not read this but you did an

631
00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:20,159
analysis of the catcher in the rye and

632
00:24:26,149 --> 00:24:22,880
similarly drawing out the the

633
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:26,159
parapolitical conspiratorial

634
00:24:32,149 --> 00:24:29,600
aspects of it and and stuff like that so

635
00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:32,159
just as a little note there you're not a

636
00:24:35,909 --> 00:24:33,200
guy who's

637
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:35,919
stopped and you know rested on your your

638
00:24:40,710 --> 00:24:36,799
big

639
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:40,720
you're moving every day you're you're

640
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:43,200
doing new stuff right

641
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:46,480
yeah i'm uh a curious individual

642
00:24:52,549 --> 00:24:50,000
and and i i have in fact

643
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:52,559
you know kind of been inspired by

644
00:24:58,950 --> 00:24:56,320
the insights into propaganda that i got

645
00:25:02,630 --> 00:24:58,960
doing the research on cedar messiah

646
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:02,640
to look really as best i could at

647
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:03,760
my world

648
00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:04,799
uh and

649
00:25:08,310 --> 00:25:06,240
um you know like you talked about the

650
00:25:09,909 --> 00:25:08,320
catcher in the rye analysis

651
00:25:11,669 --> 00:25:09,919
you know very important in my opinion

652
00:25:14,470 --> 00:25:11,679
because you can see that

653
00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:14,480
our literature is uh you know it has a

654
00:25:18,549 --> 00:25:16,159
surface

655
00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:18,559
level that the public

656
00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:20,720
understands but that the oligarchs are

657
00:25:25,510 --> 00:25:22,240
in communication

658
00:25:28,149 --> 00:25:25,520
and they have a different world uh that

659
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:28,159
than we are permitted to enter into and

660
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:30,000
and it's exactly the same thing that was

661
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:31,840
going on with the gospels

662
00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:33,520
the insiders

663
00:25:36,870 --> 00:25:35,200
could see the humor

664
00:25:38,789 --> 00:25:36,880
and see that how they were creating

665
00:25:40,149 --> 00:25:38,799
legacy for themselves with this story

666
00:25:43,269 --> 00:25:40,159
about jesus

667
00:25:46,149 --> 00:25:43,279
but the plebeian saw nothing

668
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:46,159
they just saw the surface narrative so

669
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:47,520
um that

670
00:25:54,149 --> 00:25:50,880
that kind of ignorance um and the the

671
00:25:58,230 --> 00:25:54,159
way that it was used by the oligarchs to

672
00:26:03,909 --> 00:26:01,190
you know is it's the in my opinion it's

673
00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:03,919
the most critical

674
00:26:08,070 --> 00:26:06,400
issue that we are facing

675
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:08,080
we have all these issues right now so

676
00:26:12,549 --> 00:26:09,520
many of them but

677
00:26:15,190 --> 00:26:12,559
this one issue has stayed throughout

678
00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:15,200
our civilization for thousands of years

679
00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:17,120
which is that

680
00:26:20,710 --> 00:26:18,400
humans

681
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:20,720
believe what we're told

682
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:22,559
and so

683
00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:24,640
this is uh something the oligarchs have

684
00:26:27,190 --> 00:26:26,320
learned how to manipulate

685
00:26:29,750 --> 00:26:27,200
and

686
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:29,760
we are i think suffering um

687
00:26:33,350 --> 00:26:31,840
and are in danger of being genocided

688
00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:33,360
because of this

689
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:36,320
uh this systemic weakness that we have

690
00:26:40,950 --> 00:26:38,400
um about how

691
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:40,960
when when information comes

692
00:26:44,789 --> 00:26:42,240
from

693
00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:44,799
above us in the social structure

694
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:47,840
we have this innate um

695
00:26:52,549 --> 00:26:50,559
sort of acceptance of it um

696
00:26:54,549 --> 00:26:52,559
unfortunately even though this this

697
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:54,559
might be a good way to create social

698
00:26:58,149 --> 00:26:55,760
harmony

699
00:27:01,590 --> 00:26:58,159
um that would be in a

700
00:27:03,029 --> 00:27:01,600
you know in a situation where the social

701
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:03,039
structure

702
00:27:07,350 --> 00:27:05,440
had the protection of the individual as

703
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:07,360
you know part and parcel

704
00:27:12,070 --> 00:27:10,320
here and looking backwards

705
00:27:14,149 --> 00:27:12,080
um that

706
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:14,159
that trust between

707
00:27:19,909 --> 00:27:16,799
the authority and and the the citizens

708
00:27:22,549 --> 00:27:19,919
of a society has been broken it's been

709
00:27:24,149 --> 00:27:22,559
broken it's and therefore it's been used

710
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:24,159
and now um

711
00:27:27,909 --> 00:27:26,640
you know we're being told one thing

712
00:27:29,190 --> 00:27:27,919
after another

713
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:29,200
um

714
00:27:33,510 --> 00:27:30,880
none of it really can stand up to any

715
00:27:35,669 --> 00:27:33,520
scrutiny but few citizens are doing the

716
00:27:38,549 --> 00:27:35,679
analysis to really see

717
00:27:40,389 --> 00:27:38,559
how um obviously fake

718
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:40,399
unreal some of the things are being told

719
00:27:42,310 --> 00:27:41,279
are

720
00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:42,320
and

721
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:46,960
at this point to quickly

722
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:50,000
rev up skepticism on a wide scale

723
00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:52,000
so uh one of the reasons why i'm you

724
00:27:55,750 --> 00:27:53,440
know my

725
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:55,760
ears pricked up when you were talking

726
00:27:59,269 --> 00:27:57,600
about doing more shows because i think

727
00:28:01,269 --> 00:27:59,279
that's the one of the things that we

728
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:01,279
would no doubt just because of you know

729
00:28:05,909 --> 00:28:03,600
how we are we would get into and i would

730
00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:05,919
love to do that right now just to just

731
00:28:10,389 --> 00:28:08,240
be a process by which

732
00:28:12,070 --> 00:28:10,399
um you know people would would just

733
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:12,080
create more skepticism and then from

734
00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:14,240
that learn how to think

735
00:28:17,590 --> 00:28:15,600
because the

736
00:28:20,870 --> 00:28:17,600
oligarchs use our ignorance as their

737
00:28:23,190 --> 00:28:20,880
primary tool we don't get taught how to

738
00:28:26,549 --> 00:28:23,200
think very well how to analyze how to

739
00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:26,559
use logic how to evaluate facts and

740
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:28,960
these things just have to be developed

741
00:28:33,669 --> 00:28:31,440
now it's just critical the

742
00:28:35,669 --> 00:28:33,679
the oligarchs have developed

743
00:28:37,430 --> 00:28:35,679
technological powers i mean in the old

744
00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:37,440
days

745
00:28:41,669 --> 00:28:39,520
you know they had the crucifix

746
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:41,679
torture of these things but now they

747
00:28:45,990 --> 00:28:44,480
have technology they have snooping they

748
00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:46,000
have the iphone

749
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:48,480
uh they have drugs you know so

750
00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:51,840
the oligarchs have developed their power

751
00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:54,159
to ossify their themselves and their

752
00:28:57,190 --> 00:28:55,120
roles

753
00:29:00,070 --> 00:28:57,200
the citizen has to develop we have to

754
00:29:02,950 --> 00:29:00,080
develop our skills at democracy

755
00:29:03,830 --> 00:29:02,960
we need to try to counter their increase

756
00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:03,840
in

757
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:07,120
uh technical capacity for dictatorship

758
00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:09,840
with a analytic power that the citizens

759
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:12,640
have to uh you know

760
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:14,320
you know ferret out what they're doing

761
00:29:19,510 --> 00:29:16,720
and then come up with countermeasures

762
00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:19,520
yeah but joe to you know throw a

763
00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:21,120
shakespeare line

764
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:23,919
it was always thus

765
00:29:28,950 --> 00:29:26,320
that to me is is one of the things we

766
00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:28,960
take away from caesar's messiah

767
00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:31,039
if you really dig into it and you start

768
00:29:35,669 --> 00:29:33,520
digging into it further and further

769
00:29:38,230 --> 00:29:35,679
you know and and

770
00:29:39,669 --> 00:29:38,240
it's always been like that and the tools

771
00:29:41,350 --> 00:29:39,679
aren't really

772
00:29:44,149 --> 00:29:41,360
that much they've changed a lot and

773
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:44,159
we've layered on some fancy technology

774
00:29:46,950 --> 00:29:45,039
but

775
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:46,960
it was always thus and that's what i

776
00:29:52,070 --> 00:29:49,360
think is is also interesting about

777
00:29:53,830 --> 00:29:52,080
history you know and maybe i can

778
00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:53,840
jump out of the process mode because i

779
00:29:58,149 --> 00:29:55,919
could go on and on and talk about

780
00:30:00,789 --> 00:29:58,159
the process and how we do what we're

781
00:30:01,909 --> 00:30:00,799
gonna do but maybe we need to jump into

782
00:30:06,630 --> 00:30:01,919
it

783
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:06,640
you mention oligarchs you know

784
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:09,360
because i think of oligarchs but i also

785
00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:11,120
think of this idea of these lifetime

786
00:30:15,029 --> 00:30:12,240
players

787
00:30:17,350 --> 00:30:15,039
i also think of the useful idiot

788
00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:17,360
i think of the game master

789
00:30:21,190 --> 00:30:19,520
i think of the monarchs

790
00:30:23,510 --> 00:30:21,200
and i think of all these people as being

791
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:23,520
white hats and black hats you know we'll

792
00:30:26,870 --> 00:30:24,320
just

793
00:30:28,389 --> 00:30:26,880
i'll tie it to one little tidbit that i

794
00:30:30,149 --> 00:30:28,399
think will kind of maybe take us in a

795
00:30:32,549 --> 00:30:30,159
different direction and then we'll get

796
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:32,559
back to i can't wait to talk about

797
00:30:37,830 --> 00:30:35,120
caesar's messiah 2.0 and everything that

798
00:30:39,430 --> 00:30:37,840
i'm learning about that roman history

799
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:39,440
and we'll have lots of fun with that but

800
00:30:43,110 --> 00:30:40,559
i love

801
00:30:44,870 --> 00:30:43,120
laying out this groundwork with you

802
00:30:46,310 --> 00:30:44,880
so i jumped to

803
00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:46,320
fdr

804
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:47,120
and

805
00:30:51,430 --> 00:30:49,440
the attack on pearl harbor

806
00:30:53,430 --> 00:30:51,440
and it's always been an interesting

807
00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:53,440
point in history because it popped up on

808
00:30:58,549 --> 00:30:56,080
my radar screen when i first got

809
00:31:01,029 --> 00:30:58,559
interested in conspiracies and that is

810
00:31:02,149 --> 00:31:01,039
the idea that perhaps

811
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:02,159
we were

812
00:31:06,630 --> 00:31:04,480
willing to be

813
00:31:09,190 --> 00:31:06,640
surprise attacked i know that's an

814
00:31:10,549 --> 00:31:09,200
oxymoron but people get what i mean

815
00:31:12,950 --> 00:31:10,559
and the evidence that that starts

816
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:12,960
mounting up the deep you look into it

817
00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:15,039
and the most significant evidence that i

818
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:16,320
think is

819
00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:18,399
layered with the kind of complexity that

820
00:31:23,909 --> 00:31:21,600
we need to really analyze this game

821
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:23,919
player kind of thing and whether it's a

822
00:31:28,470 --> 00:31:26,399
white hat game player or a black hat

823
00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:28,480
game player

824
00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:32,320
is that i think the the really smart

825
00:31:38,470 --> 00:31:35,840
pentagon military industrial complex

826
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:38,480
people and some of them are damn damn

827
00:31:42,310 --> 00:31:39,440
smart

828
00:31:44,470 --> 00:31:42,320
but they realized at that time

829
00:31:47,509 --> 00:31:44,480
in the in the 30s

830
00:31:49,750 --> 00:31:47,519
1930s and early 1940s

831
00:31:52,149 --> 00:31:49,760
that world war ii was going to be a war

832
00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:52,159
that was won or lost

833
00:31:57,669 --> 00:31:55,200
with aircraft carriers

834
00:32:01,029 --> 00:31:57,679
so before the japanese and we had done

835
00:32:02,549 --> 00:32:01,039
everything at this point to bait japan

836
00:32:05,029 --> 00:32:02,559
into attacking us

837
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:05,039
hell we had we had basically committed

838
00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:08,640
an act of war by blockading all the oil

839
00:32:13,029 --> 00:32:09,840
from

840
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:13,039
reaching japan which is an act of war

841
00:32:18,470 --> 00:32:15,760
you know so we were ready for the attack

842
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:18,480
we had intercepted information knowing

843
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:21,600
that they were going to attack fdr sends

844
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:24,000
all the aircraft area all the aircraft

845
00:32:28,710 --> 00:32:26,159
carriers out to sea which is the

846
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:28,720
telltale sign of two things one he knew

847
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:31,120
the attack was coming and two he knew

848
00:32:35,509 --> 00:32:32,960
that those stupid old destroyers and

849
00:32:37,509 --> 00:32:35,519
crap that he left in pearl harbor didn't

850
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:37,519
mean as [\h__\h] and if they put him to the

851
00:32:41,509 --> 00:32:39,440
bottom of the ocean

852
00:32:43,669 --> 00:32:41,519
it wouldn't really make any difference

853
00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:43,679
and it really didn't make any difference

854
00:32:49,990 --> 00:32:46,799
and in fact once they bombed those ships

855
00:32:52,710 --> 00:32:50,000
he sent them back to port in

856
00:32:55,350 --> 00:32:52,720
san francisco and in los angeles to

857
00:32:59,350 --> 00:32:55,360
guard the coastline like we needed it

858
00:33:01,110 --> 00:32:59,360
guarded but here's the point in all that

859
00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:01,120
was that

860
00:33:04,389 --> 00:33:02,640
an oligarch

861
00:33:06,310 --> 00:33:04,399
a game master

862
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:06,320
in a white hat

863
00:33:13,029 --> 00:33:10,000
because you could make the case that we

864
00:33:16,230 --> 00:33:13,039
needed that we needed that kind of pearl

865
00:33:17,830 --> 00:33:16,240
harbor event which echoes with the 911

866
00:33:18,870 --> 00:33:17,840
thing but we won't even get there for a

867
00:33:22,950 --> 00:33:18,880
minute

868
00:33:23,830 --> 00:33:22,960
we needed a pearl harbor event to wake

869
00:33:25,590 --> 00:33:23,840
up

870
00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:25,600
this

871
00:33:31,590 --> 00:33:29,200
sleeping slumbering stupid american

872
00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:31,600
populace that was still

873
00:33:36,470 --> 00:33:34,240
wrestling with the fact of whether

874
00:33:38,549 --> 00:33:36,480
this world war was really something we

875
00:33:40,630 --> 00:33:38,559
needed to engage in what do you think

876
00:33:44,070 --> 00:33:40,640
about all that

877
00:33:44,870 --> 00:33:44,080
yeah i mean i think it was uh

878
00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:44,880
the

879
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:55,120
uh gee it's such a long

880
00:33:58,870 --> 00:33:57,200
analytic path but i mean you know things

881
00:34:00,789 --> 00:33:58,880
that you can do just to kind of

882
00:34:01,750 --> 00:34:00,799
accelerate that understanding is look at

883
00:34:06,310 --> 00:34:01,760
the

884
00:34:07,869 --> 00:34:06,320
car he was in when he was assassinated

885
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:07,879
you know it's

886
00:34:11,990 --> 00:34:09,599
a1118

887
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:12,000
which ended up being armistice day uh

888
00:34:18,470 --> 00:34:14,320
you know three and a half years later so

889
00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:18,480
they they knew the dates that they would

890
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:20,879
you know conclude the war at the before

891
00:34:23,669 --> 00:34:22,480
they they began it

892
00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:23,679
um

893
00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:27,280
in in ww1 you know you have the kaiser

894
00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:29,679
and uh you know the

895
00:34:32,470 --> 00:34:31,440
king of england but they they were first

896
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:32,480
cousins

897
00:34:35,829 --> 00:34:34,079
they played together as children of

898
00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:35,839
course they were both masons they had

899
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:38,159
they were part of the secret society

900
00:34:40,230 --> 00:34:39,440
um

901
00:34:42,470 --> 00:34:40,240
so

902
00:34:45,109 --> 00:34:42,480
this looks very artificial it looks like

903
00:34:46,149 --> 00:34:45,119
it's simply population reduction

904
00:34:47,909 --> 00:34:46,159
um

905
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:47,919
and it's a it's upsetting to me because

906
00:34:52,950 --> 00:34:50,399
my grandfather was mustard gassed at the

907
00:34:54,629 --> 00:34:52,960
psalm you know where they just

908
00:34:55,750 --> 00:34:54,639
pushed these people into automatic

909
00:34:58,230 --> 00:34:55,760
weapons

910
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:58,240
uh you know 60 000 people i think died

911
00:35:02,630 --> 00:34:59,760
in a two-day period just unbelievable

912
00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:02,640
carnage so that was um

913
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:03,839
you know just

914
00:35:08,550 --> 00:35:06,640
like how how and and you know there's

915
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:08,560
just there's there's be some to go into

916
00:35:11,750 --> 00:35:09,839
that

917
00:35:13,829 --> 00:35:11,760
stream of analysis would be

918
00:35:15,829 --> 00:35:13,839
uh kind of a long diversion but i'm just

919
00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:15,839
giving you my opinion i mean i would say

920
00:35:19,589 --> 00:35:17,440
another way you can look at is look at

921
00:35:24,310 --> 00:35:19,599
9-1-1

922
00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:24,320
the hebrew bible that the temple was

923
00:35:28,390 --> 00:35:26,320
destroyed if you look at the analysis of

924
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:28,400
caesar's messiah

925
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:30,000
you can see that the destruction of the

926
00:35:34,310 --> 00:35:31,680
temple was uh

927
00:35:37,349 --> 00:35:34,320
you know the the roman touchdown point

928
00:35:39,990 --> 00:35:37,359
for when they claimed to be ending

929
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:40,000
uh the the jewish religion and replacing

930
00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:40,720
it

931
00:35:48,310 --> 00:35:44,800
version of judaism

932
00:35:49,270 --> 00:35:48,320
so the idea that uh you know the the

933
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:49,280
central

934
00:35:54,230 --> 00:35:52,160
turning point in history was that that

935
00:35:55,829 --> 00:35:54,240
uh you know could be seen as as you know

936
00:35:56,710 --> 00:35:55,839
9-1-1 it's it's

937
00:35:59,510 --> 00:35:56,720
it is

938
00:36:00,950 --> 00:35:59,520
you know um it's a little it's different

939
00:36:02,069 --> 00:36:00,960
because the numbers are slightly

940
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:02,079
different i mean they're not they're not

941
00:36:05,910 --> 00:36:03,920
different they're the same numbers but

942
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:05,920
the month and the dates are inverted um

943
00:36:10,390 --> 00:36:08,160
but you know this is how the typology

944
00:36:13,030 --> 00:36:10,400
works i mean typology is never verbatin

945
00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:13,040
fatimism but you can people wonder why

946
00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:15,040
that date was chosen i mean it's in our

947
00:36:19,990 --> 00:36:17,680
in my opinion it's an obvious artificial

948
00:36:22,069 --> 00:36:20,000
government project so

949
00:36:24,150 --> 00:36:22,079
um the fact that this date was chosen

950
00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:24,160
the fact that three buildings collapsed

951
00:36:26,950 --> 00:36:25,920
i mean this is like representing the

952
00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:26,960
trinity

953
00:36:31,829 --> 00:36:29,920
so you you know these things are

954
00:36:33,990 --> 00:36:31,839
they're hard to understand you have to

955
00:36:36,310 --> 00:36:34,000
do a lot of sort of background work and

956
00:36:37,790 --> 00:36:36,320
and look for how they they represent

957
00:36:40,310 --> 00:36:37,800
these things but

958
00:36:41,589 --> 00:36:40,320
ww2 i mean i've always thought that the

959
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:41,599
um

960
00:36:46,150 --> 00:36:43,920
kind of the most you know like

961
00:36:48,550 --> 00:36:46,160
the beginning of kind of like the humor

962
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:48,560
of the thing was just they they called

963
00:36:53,109 --> 00:36:51,280
the attack torah torah torah

964
00:36:55,030 --> 00:36:53,119
which uh you know

965
00:36:57,510 --> 00:36:55,040
you know at that time the freemasons had

966
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:57,520
become very powerful politically and so

967
00:37:02,950 --> 00:36:59,920
i've always thought that this was uh

968
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:02,960
just a japanese pun you know on on the

969
00:37:06,069 --> 00:37:03,920
uh

970
00:37:09,190 --> 00:37:06,079
on the relationship there um

971
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:09,200
the masons had you know had gotten into

972
00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:11,920
japan and had uh

973
00:37:15,349 --> 00:37:12,880
um

974
00:37:17,109 --> 00:37:15,359
uh you know it did at the end macarthur

975
00:37:19,270 --> 00:37:17,119
you know who was amazing uh he he

976
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:19,280
basically put all of the

977
00:37:24,870 --> 00:37:22,560
the japanese authority were you know to

978
00:37:25,750 --> 00:37:24,880
go forward after we're all freemasons so

979
00:37:27,670 --> 00:37:25,760
it was

980
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:27,680
you know japan was uh one of the

981
00:37:31,109 --> 00:37:30,240
countries that had this masonic

982
00:37:33,670 --> 00:37:31,119
um

983
00:37:34,790 --> 00:37:33,680
you know kind of influence which then

984
00:37:37,190 --> 00:37:34,800
uh you know

985
00:37:39,030 --> 00:37:37,200
they they attacked us

986
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:39,040
uh and as you say there was very good

987
00:37:41,589 --> 00:37:40,800
political reasons i mean

988
00:37:42,470 --> 00:37:41,599
um

989
00:37:44,310 --> 00:37:42,480
but

990
00:37:49,270 --> 00:37:44,320
um

991
00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:51,190
could have easily or or could have

992
00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:52,880
possibly found other ways to deal with

993
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:54,720
it it's sort of like uh

994
00:37:58,390 --> 00:37:56,640
um the wars

995
00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:58,400
alex are very

996
00:38:01,589 --> 00:38:00,400
you know you well look go go back to the

997
00:38:03,990 --> 00:38:01,599
revolutionary word you want to see

998
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:04,000
another example why couldn't the lodge

999
00:38:08,069 --> 00:38:06,640
brothers washington and king george just

1000
00:38:10,069 --> 00:38:08,079
work it out

1001
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:10,079
i mean i mean but

1002
00:38:14,470 --> 00:38:12,320
wars are very important uh they

1003
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:14,480
traumatize the population they they

1004
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:16,560
depopulate certain groups

1005
00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:18,400
and so you just always have to ask

1006
00:38:22,870 --> 00:38:20,560
yourself you know like

1007
00:38:25,510 --> 00:38:22,880
what is what is really in back the big

1008
00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:25,520
picture i would say world war ii

1009
00:38:30,230 --> 00:38:26,720
um

1010
00:38:33,589 --> 00:38:30,240
you have uh this bizarre influence on

1011
00:38:35,829 --> 00:38:33,599
both on on on two key components of

1012
00:38:39,829 --> 00:38:35,839
what's going on historically

1013
00:38:41,190 --> 00:38:39,839
um the quattro coronadi lodge uh was

1014
00:38:43,750 --> 00:38:41,200
producing

1015
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:43,760
both uh the nazi party through helen

1016
00:38:46,870 --> 00:38:46,079
bubotsky and the theosophical society

1017
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:46,880
and

1018
00:38:51,109 --> 00:38:48,960
other people that they had set out there

1019
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:51,119
so they have the the nazi party is very

1020
00:38:55,829 --> 00:38:54,000
very easily identified once you kind of

1021
00:38:57,430 --> 00:38:55,839
get into the

1022
00:38:59,270 --> 00:38:57,440
like who is actually developing the

1023
00:39:00,870 --> 00:38:59,280
different things you know the money the

1024
00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:00,880
philosophy the

1025
00:39:07,109 --> 00:39:04,880
the swastika the anti-semitism the aryan

1026
00:39:08,710 --> 00:39:07,119
supremacy i mean these things are all

1027
00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:08,720
coming from different individuals but

1028
00:39:11,510 --> 00:39:09,760
they're all

1029
00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:11,520
part of this you know by the

1030
00:39:15,829 --> 00:39:14,240
organization that bobotsky set up

1031
00:39:17,670 --> 00:39:15,839
blavatsky of course i talk about

1032
00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:17,680
lifetime actors you know she claims to

1033
00:39:21,910 --> 00:39:19,680
have been in himalayas in this you know

1034
00:39:23,270 --> 00:39:21,920
deep religious spiritual thing where she

1035
00:39:24,950 --> 00:39:23,280
develops this

1036
00:39:27,430 --> 00:39:24,960
bizarre and

1037
00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:27,440
weird uh you know like a theosophical

1038
00:39:30,630 --> 00:39:28,720
society

1039
00:39:31,910 --> 00:39:30,640
actually she wasn't there at all she was

1040
00:39:36,390 --> 00:39:31,920
in italy

1041
00:39:38,950 --> 00:39:36,400
with um manzini and uh garibaldi

1042
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:38,960
uh fighting them in the masonic army

1043
00:39:42,710 --> 00:39:40,640
against the pope

1044
00:39:44,790 --> 00:39:42,720
she was at the battle of montana where

1045
00:39:47,349 --> 00:39:44,800
uh garibaldi and the popes you know had

1046
00:39:49,349 --> 00:39:47,359
this bloodbath they lost

1047
00:39:51,510 --> 00:39:49,359
she was wearing a red shirt she took two

1048
00:39:53,109 --> 00:39:51,520
bullets and a saber wound that almost

1049
00:39:55,990 --> 00:39:53,119
took her arm off

1050
00:39:58,069 --> 00:39:56,000
and when garibaldi brings her back to

1051
00:39:58,950 --> 00:39:58,079
england she is still wearing the red

1052
00:40:02,950 --> 00:39:58,960
shirt

1053
00:40:05,109 --> 00:40:02,960
the freemason symbol of the of the group

1054
00:40:06,790 --> 00:40:05,119
that garibaldi had developed which then

1055
00:40:08,390 --> 00:40:06,800
becomes the the brown shirt and the

1056
00:40:10,390 --> 00:40:08,400
black shirt you know it's a nazi party

1057
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:10,400
goes for it but anyway i mean this kind

1058
00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:12,240
of rambling here but

1059
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:15,200
i'm just in complete agreement that

1060
00:40:19,349 --> 00:40:17,280
you when you look at pearl harbor and

1061
00:40:21,670 --> 00:40:19,359
you start seeing strange things you know

1062
00:40:23,349 --> 00:40:21,680
like how it appears like they they may

1063
00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:23,359
have had four knowledge

1064
00:40:25,829 --> 00:40:24,720
man this is

1065
00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:25,839
you know

1066
00:40:28,950 --> 00:40:27,920
this is a it's a portal what you've what

1067
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:28,960
you've

1068
00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:31,200
posited is a portal

1069
00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:34,240
and i would just encourage all citizens

1070
00:40:39,030 --> 00:40:36,720
to walk down that

1071
00:40:42,069 --> 00:40:39,040
opening that you created

1072
00:40:44,470 --> 00:40:42,079
the um what we have is history is

1073
00:40:46,630 --> 00:40:44,480
nonsense it's sort of like the uh

1074
00:40:49,109 --> 00:40:46,640
the the history of jesus christ being

1075
00:40:50,630 --> 00:40:49,119
given to us you know as well this is

1076
00:40:51,750 --> 00:40:50,640
why we should you know be a part of this

1077
00:40:54,710 --> 00:40:51,760
religion

1078
00:40:57,109 --> 00:40:54,720
i'm sorry this is these are stories that

1079
00:40:59,829 --> 00:40:57,119
are given to us for control

1080
00:41:01,510 --> 00:40:59,839
and the world wars are incredibly

1081
00:41:02,870 --> 00:41:01,520
important to understand

1082
00:41:06,309 --> 00:41:02,880
uh as

1083
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:06,319
as stories told by lifetime actors you

1084
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:08,319
know you look at roosevelt you know he's

1085
00:41:11,990 --> 00:41:10,079
supposedly

1086
00:41:13,270 --> 00:41:12,000
what you know socialist or you know some

1087
00:41:16,069 --> 00:41:13,280
of the new deal

1088
00:41:17,349 --> 00:41:16,079
remember his first cousin is running

1089
00:41:18,470 --> 00:41:17,359
um

1090
00:41:21,109 --> 00:41:18,480
the uh

1091
00:41:22,870 --> 00:41:21,119
russell truss openium opium

1092
00:41:23,910 --> 00:41:22,880
business in china was the head he was

1093
00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:23,920
the head of it

1094
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:24,880
and so

1095
00:41:29,109 --> 00:41:26,880
you have these oligarchic i would call

1096
00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:29,119
them oligarchy connections in inside

1097
00:41:31,829 --> 00:41:30,480
that family going in all different

1098
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:31,839
directions

1099
00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:35,040
um these people are created and set up

1100
00:41:39,750 --> 00:41:37,280
you know we we

1101
00:41:41,510 --> 00:41:39,760
they they we see them as

1102
00:41:42,870 --> 00:41:41,520
whatever you know that they're they're

1103
00:41:43,829 --> 00:41:42,880
they're

1104
00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:43,839
uh

1105
00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:47,040
the representation of their role is how

1106
00:41:49,910 --> 00:41:48,880
we perceive them you know obama for

1107
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:49,920
example

1108
00:41:54,790 --> 00:41:52,000
but if you look in their background you

1109
00:41:56,870 --> 00:41:54,800
start to see things you know

1110
00:41:57,670 --> 00:41:56,880
that just seem inexplicable

1111
00:42:00,309 --> 00:41:57,680
um

1112
00:42:01,349 --> 00:42:00,319
you look at ken keezy our

1113
00:42:02,870 --> 00:42:01,359
you know the

1114
00:42:04,790 --> 00:42:02,880
stuart brand the people are creating the

1115
00:42:06,390 --> 00:42:04,800
counterculture you go backwards a bit

1116
00:42:09,349 --> 00:42:06,400
you start seeing things

1117
00:42:12,790 --> 00:42:09,359
that connect them into um

1118
00:42:14,470 --> 00:42:12,800
you know this this long-standing process

1119
00:42:15,510 --> 00:42:14,480
by which the counterculture is being

1120
00:42:17,990 --> 00:42:15,520
produced

1121
00:42:20,470 --> 00:42:18,000
and so this is you know alex this is my

1122
00:42:23,510 --> 00:42:20,480
honest opinion is that

1123
00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:23,520
we what we have is history is actually

1124
00:42:28,470 --> 00:42:26,400
uh a system of social control

1125
00:42:31,109 --> 00:42:28,480
and it's tipped to stern and there you

1126
00:42:33,510 --> 00:42:31,119
just can't believe a darn thing of it

1127
00:42:35,109 --> 00:42:33,520
what you can get i mean it'd be like

1128
00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:35,119
trying to recreate the history of the

1129
00:42:38,870 --> 00:42:36,720
first century

1130
00:42:40,390 --> 00:42:38,880
if you understand the typology and how

1131
00:42:42,069 --> 00:42:40,400
the oligarchs are using the story of

1132
00:42:43,670 --> 00:42:42,079
christianity you can kind of tease the

1133
00:42:45,829 --> 00:42:43,680
history out of it you can sort of say

1134
00:42:47,750 --> 00:42:45,839
well maybe this was how you know the

1135
00:42:49,750 --> 00:42:47,760
struggle between the romans and the jews

1136
00:42:51,670 --> 00:42:49,760
went went down because you have some

1137
00:42:53,750 --> 00:42:51,680
basis in the typology to make sense out

1138
00:42:56,150 --> 00:42:53,760
of it but other than that there's

1139
00:42:58,790 --> 00:42:56,160
nothing you using josephus is the only

1140
00:43:00,550 --> 00:42:58,800
real one on the ground historian of the

1141
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:00,560
judean war

1142
00:43:06,470 --> 00:43:04,079
is ridiculous this is a this is a 100

1143
00:43:07,349 --> 00:43:06,480
device for social control once you have

1144
00:43:08,710 --> 00:43:07,359
that

1145
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:08,720
understanding

1146
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:10,480
the world is

1147
00:43:14,790 --> 00:43:12,720
more

1148
00:43:17,030 --> 00:43:14,800
brutal you know you can see that that

1149
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:17,040
there that what a lot of the things that

1150
00:43:21,589 --> 00:43:18,480
we thought were

1151
00:43:24,309 --> 00:43:21,599
benevolent or not but it's also a lot

1152
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:24,319
clearer a lot easier to understand

1153
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:26,640
you can have decisions now that uh will

1154
00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:29,680
hopefully protect yourself in the future

1155
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:33,520
okay so you just covered the world there

1156
00:43:38,470 --> 00:43:35,520
dude i didn't meet you i just no you

1157
00:43:42,790 --> 00:43:40,470
here's what i would here's what i would

1158
00:43:45,030 --> 00:43:42,800
kind of suggest like

1159
00:43:46,309 --> 00:43:45,040
whenever we hit these topics that

1160
00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:46,319
require

1161
00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:49,520
additional kind of work then we should

1162
00:43:53,750 --> 00:43:51,760
break them off as separate topics i

1163
00:43:54,870 --> 00:43:53,760
think

1164
00:43:57,349 --> 00:43:54,880
crowley

1165
00:43:59,750 --> 00:43:57,359
rudolph steiner who is really a white

1166
00:44:01,349 --> 00:43:59,760
hat in in there as well but i've just

1167
00:44:03,349 --> 00:44:01,359
interviewed a guy who's the head of the

1168
00:44:05,990 --> 00:44:03,359
theosophical society

1169
00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:06,000
that would be a great show

1170
00:44:09,829 --> 00:44:08,400
to have and a great show to discuss and

1171
00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:09,839
i don't think i

1172
00:44:15,270 --> 00:44:12,079
kind of agree with you on a lot of that

1173
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:15,280
stuff but i i agree with enough of it

1174
00:44:20,470 --> 00:44:18,000
that we we'd have a good dialogue so i'd

1175
00:44:21,910 --> 00:44:20,480
almost break that out go ahead

1176
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:21,920
i wanted to conclude with one little

1177
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:24,480
thing because i just this in case people

1178
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:27,119
you know want to like go into that uh

1179
00:44:32,150 --> 00:44:29,520
one of the things that uh is overlooked

1180
00:44:35,349 --> 00:44:32,160
so often when people talk about hitler

1181
00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:35,359
is that he was actually a creation of uh

1182
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:37,119
dietrich aircart

1183
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:39,040
and this is known i mean he's one who

1184
00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:40,880
like taught him how to talk how to have

1185
00:44:43,589 --> 00:44:42,319
a stage presence he bought him the

1186
00:44:45,589 --> 00:44:43,599
overcoat because he thought he wasn't

1187
00:44:46,390 --> 00:44:45,599
manly looking

1188
00:44:49,430 --> 00:44:46,400
but

1189
00:44:52,550 --> 00:44:49,440
on his deathbed he created a quote which

1190
00:44:54,870 --> 00:44:52,560
is in existence and eckhart said you

1191
00:44:57,030 --> 00:44:54,880
know don't feel bad for me i'm going to

1192
00:44:59,349 --> 00:44:57,040
have more influence in

1193
00:45:00,790 --> 00:44:59,359
in germany history than any other person

1194
00:45:01,670 --> 00:45:00,800
because i'm the one

1195
00:45:02,470 --> 00:45:01,680
who

1196
00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:02,480
uh

1197
00:45:06,950 --> 00:45:05,280
turned adolf hitler on to blavotsky and

1198
00:45:09,910 --> 00:45:06,960
the secret doctrine

1199
00:45:10,870 --> 00:45:09,920
um adolph is dancing to my tune

1200
00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:10,880
so

1201
00:45:14,790 --> 00:45:12,240
you know

1202
00:45:17,750 --> 00:45:14,800
i hate to say it but when you start out

1203
00:45:19,829 --> 00:45:17,760
with blavoski in the 1880s you know

1204
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:19,839
coming up with the right angled swastika

1205
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:21,839
as the uh the symbol

1206
00:45:26,870 --> 00:45:24,720
which then you know ends up with uh

1207
00:45:27,990 --> 00:45:26,880
uh sabotendorff you know

1208
00:45:30,790 --> 00:45:28,000
like

1209
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:30,800
owning the the national socialist party

1210
00:45:35,109 --> 00:45:33,119
and then handing it over to the

1211
00:45:37,109 --> 00:45:35,119
to eckhart and and the next generation

1212
00:45:39,030 --> 00:45:37,119
the people are surrounding hitler i mean

1213
00:45:40,790 --> 00:45:39,040
it to me it's just too many points of

1214
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:40,800
connection and it's all going in one

1215
00:45:44,630 --> 00:45:42,800
direction and it's been completely

1216
00:45:45,430 --> 00:45:44,640
overlooked i mean it's just shocking

1217
00:45:49,190 --> 00:45:45,440
that

1218
00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:49,200
hasn't actually

1219
00:45:53,190 --> 00:45:51,760
gotten more attention because remember

1220
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:53,200
that when you talk about national

1221
00:45:56,230 --> 00:45:54,640
socialism you're talking about the

1222
00:45:57,750 --> 00:45:56,240
bellamy's

1223
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:57,760
the bellamys are the ones who actually

1224
00:46:02,470 --> 00:46:00,400
came up with the term they developed the

1225
00:46:04,470 --> 00:46:02,480
flag salute in america before they went

1226
00:46:05,670 --> 00:46:04,480
to germany to introduce the philosophy

1227
00:46:08,230 --> 00:46:05,680
there but

1228
00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:08,240
and the bellamy's were strict followers

1229
00:46:12,470 --> 00:46:09,839
of blavatsky

1230
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:12,480
blavotsky you know has has letters with

1231
00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:14,560
them and and writes about them as though

1232
00:46:19,589 --> 00:46:16,400
they were basically you know her

1233
00:46:21,430 --> 00:46:19,599
creations and doing her bidding and so

1234
00:46:22,950 --> 00:46:21,440
you know these connections have always

1235
00:46:24,069 --> 00:46:22,960
been there

1236
00:46:26,390 --> 00:46:24,079
not

1237
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:26,400
given to the public i mean try to find

1238
00:46:30,309 --> 00:46:28,480
eckhart's deathbed quote the one i gave

1239
00:46:32,309 --> 00:46:30,319
you man it's very very hard to find it

1240
00:46:34,309 --> 00:46:32,319
they've scrubbed it so

1241
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:34,319
you know um

1242
00:46:38,870 --> 00:46:36,880
we won't agree on a lot of stuff but i

1243
00:46:39,910 --> 00:46:38,880
think we'll both agree on on this

1244
00:46:42,470 --> 00:46:39,920
principle

1245
00:46:43,990 --> 00:46:42,480
you know that we we really uh need to go

1246
00:46:46,069 --> 00:46:44,000
into our history

1247
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:46,079
and to see how

1248
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:47,760
you know what the stories have been

1249
00:46:50,950 --> 00:46:48,720
given

1250
00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:50,960
and how they have influenced us well our

1251
00:46:55,430 --> 00:46:53,040
how our beliefs now

1252
00:46:57,270 --> 00:46:55,440
create a relationship to government you

1253
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:57,280
know to our role in the world to

1254
00:47:00,390 --> 00:46:58,400
ourselves

1255
00:47:02,550 --> 00:47:00,400
that's that this wasn't

1256
00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:02,560
you know done by people who were trying

1257
00:47:08,309 --> 00:47:04,960
to develop us spiritually

1258
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:08,319
these things are given to us for control

1259
00:47:12,710 --> 00:47:10,480
so great i like the way you teed that up

1260
00:47:15,430 --> 00:47:12,720
there at the end so i actually have a

1261
00:47:17,750 --> 00:47:15,440
lot to say about blavatsky in particular

1262
00:47:19,510 --> 00:47:17,760
aleister crowley

1263
00:47:21,030 --> 00:47:19,520
and and all that stuff and richard

1264
00:47:24,150 --> 00:47:21,040
smoley was the guy's name i was trying

1265
00:47:25,990 --> 00:47:24,160
to think of who was the head of the

1266
00:47:28,069 --> 00:47:26,000
society now when i just interviewed him

1267
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:28,079
and you know he wrote a terrific book

1268
00:47:31,829 --> 00:47:29,920
how god became god and he's written some

1269
00:47:33,589 --> 00:47:31,839
other books anyways

1270
00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:33,599
what i want to kind of should focus on a

1271
00:47:37,349 --> 00:47:35,040
little bit because i think it'll get us

1272
00:47:39,030 --> 00:47:37,359
to the same place and because we can't

1273
00:47:40,790 --> 00:47:39,040
talk about everything and i want to kind

1274
00:47:43,589 --> 00:47:40,800
of return it back to the world war ii

1275
00:47:46,230 --> 00:47:43,599
thing is history you know and i just had

1276
00:47:49,270 --> 00:47:46,240
a great interview with a guy named dr

1277
00:47:52,069 --> 00:47:49,280
adrian goldsworthy who is

1278
00:47:54,870 --> 00:47:52,079
primarily at this point he is like a

1279
00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:54,880
writer he writes history books and

1280
00:47:59,270 --> 00:47:56,800
people love him and he writes

1281
00:48:01,430 --> 00:47:59,280
about augustus and about caesar and pax

1282
00:48:03,990 --> 00:48:01,440
romani and he's an expert on military

1283
00:48:07,270 --> 00:48:04,000
history but he has a phd in history from

1284
00:48:09,910 --> 00:48:07,280
oxford and we talked a lot about how

1285
00:48:10,870 --> 00:48:09,920
history is done you know

1286
00:48:14,150 --> 00:48:10,880
and

1287
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:14,160
i i love his approach i love his rigor

1288
00:48:19,990 --> 00:48:17,520
and i i think it paints to me i'm more

1289
00:48:24,069 --> 00:48:20,000
siding with him on some of these things

1290
00:48:26,549 --> 00:48:24,079
than i am with you i think this idea is

1291
00:48:29,829 --> 00:48:26,559
that that gets kind of banted around a

1292
00:48:32,150 --> 00:48:29,839
lot is that history is nonsense

1293
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:32,160
we can't trust history don't trust

1294
00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:33,680
anything they're telling you about

1295
00:48:36,870 --> 00:48:34,880
history

1296
00:48:38,870 --> 00:48:36,880
to me it plays into some of these other

1297
00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:38,880
things we hear it's like the whole flat

1298
00:48:43,750 --> 00:48:41,280
earth thing which i think is really

1299
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:43,760
really an important topic we could spend

1300
00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:46,160
the whole time a whole hour talking

1301
00:48:52,549 --> 00:48:49,440
about flat earth and how i believe

1302
00:48:55,430 --> 00:48:52,559
that that is definitely an engineered

1303
00:48:57,990 --> 00:48:55,440
meme because if we can break people off

1304
00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:58,000
and make people feel like it's okay

1305
00:49:02,549 --> 00:48:58,800
to

1306
00:49:04,549 --> 00:49:02,559
express ideas that any halfway

1307
00:49:07,030 --> 00:49:04,559
scientific person would just dismiss out

1308
00:49:09,510 --> 00:49:07,040
of hand but hey it's okay you gotta have

1309
00:49:11,349 --> 00:49:09,520
everything it's the i'm gonna go off on

1310
00:49:13,589 --> 00:49:11,359
that i don't want to because

1311
00:49:14,870 --> 00:49:13,599
so we we can have a whole discussion on

1312
00:49:17,750 --> 00:49:14,880
flat earth

1313
00:49:19,109 --> 00:49:17,760
as well as uh as a meme as a social

1314
00:49:21,510 --> 00:49:19,119
engineering project i want to return to

1315
00:49:24,390 --> 00:49:21,520
history i want to return to dr adrian

1316
00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:24,400
goldsworthy because what goldsworthy uh

1317
00:49:30,390 --> 00:49:27,599
i i i love the way that this guy does

1318
00:49:31,990 --> 00:49:30,400
his stuff because and i kept pushing

1319
00:49:33,030 --> 00:49:32,000
them because like one of the things and

1320
00:49:35,510 --> 00:49:33,040
then i mentioned this at the very

1321
00:49:37,990 --> 00:49:35,520
beginning of the show i i said you know

1322
00:49:40,309 --> 00:49:38,000
adrian your stuff is kind of

1323
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:40,319
subtly subversive in some kind of

1324
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:42,160
important ways one of the ways it's

1325
00:49:47,589 --> 00:49:44,480
subtly subversive is this great

1326
00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:47,599
man theory and i was at the beginning

1327
00:49:52,790 --> 00:49:50,400
saying i am amazed at what you one

1328
00:49:55,190 --> 00:49:52,800
person were able to not only create in

1329
00:49:58,309 --> 00:49:55,200
your head but the effect that that was

1330
00:50:01,109 --> 00:49:58,319
able to have on our society we'll look

1331
00:50:03,750 --> 00:50:01,119
at somebody like julius caesar and

1332
00:50:06,390 --> 00:50:03,760
multiply that times 10. look at somebody

1333
00:50:09,030 --> 00:50:06,400
like augustus who was really shouldn't

1334
00:50:11,349 --> 00:50:09,040
have been risen to that level

1335
00:50:13,990 --> 00:50:11,359
again it's multiplied by 10. it's

1336
00:50:16,790 --> 00:50:14,000
interesting to note that

1337
00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:16,800
in history as an academic discipline the

1338
00:50:21,670 --> 00:50:18,720
way that it's done

1339
00:50:24,190 --> 00:50:21,680
this idea has been under attack for the

1340
00:50:27,349 --> 00:50:24,200
last 20 years and it's part of this

1341
00:50:30,870 --> 00:50:27,359
post-modernism well like no people don't

1342
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:30,880
matter it's really a product of systems

1343
00:50:38,390 --> 00:50:35,119
and environmental factors and other

1344
00:50:40,950 --> 00:50:38,400
factors that are not the individual and

1345
00:50:43,910 --> 00:50:40,960
of course that harmonizes so perfectly

1346
00:50:45,990 --> 00:50:43,920
with the control idea is that

1347
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:46,000
you there's no you you're a biological

1348
00:50:50,790 --> 00:50:48,160
robot in a meaningless universe so

1349
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:50,800
caesar there's no julius caesar he

1350
00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:53,359
wasn't important what's important is the

1351
00:50:57,670 --> 00:50:54,400
system

1352
00:50:59,910 --> 00:50:57,680
the state now so what's interesting is

1353
00:51:02,710 --> 00:50:59,920
we can't allow that to creep into

1354
00:51:04,230 --> 00:51:02,720
history because it's [\h__\h]

1355
00:51:06,549 --> 00:51:04,240
and uh and

1356
00:51:09,109 --> 00:51:06,559
adrian was able to kind of point that

1357
00:51:09,990 --> 00:51:09,119
out er we were able to kind of bond on

1358
00:51:13,750 --> 00:51:10,000
that

1359
00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:13,760
really did a great job of and i think he

1360
00:51:18,309 --> 00:51:16,640
does in his research is that

1361
00:51:20,790 --> 00:51:18,319
there's this kind of

1362
00:51:23,750 --> 00:51:20,800
no looking forward no looking back

1363
00:51:25,030 --> 00:51:23,760
discipline that i think we have to have

1364
00:51:27,589 --> 00:51:25,040
in history

1365
00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:27,599
and the no looking forward is

1366
00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:30,000
we can't create

1367
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:30,800
a

1368
00:51:37,750 --> 00:51:34,800
will

1369
00:51:39,990 --> 00:51:37,760
and then we come to understand blavatsky

1370
00:51:43,030 --> 00:51:40,000
oh she's a lifetime player she's this

1371
00:51:43,990 --> 00:51:43,040
she's that and then that's all she ever

1372
00:51:45,910 --> 00:51:44,000
is

1373
00:51:47,750 --> 00:51:45,920
because whenever she encounters

1374
00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:47,760
something else on the historical

1375
00:51:53,109 --> 00:51:50,160
timeline we're always going to insert

1376
00:51:56,470 --> 00:51:53,119
our understanding of that person

1377
00:51:58,549 --> 00:51:56,480
i think that's a huge mistake to make

1378
00:52:01,349 --> 00:51:58,559
and i think where that really comes

1379
00:52:03,829 --> 00:52:01,359
comes home is in this idea i've been

1380
00:52:06,030 --> 00:52:03,839
playing around with which i think is

1381
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:06,040
kind of fundamental to my

1382
00:52:11,510 --> 00:52:08,640
re-understanding of

1383
00:52:13,589 --> 00:52:11,520
not only caesar's messiah 2.0 but what's

1384
00:52:15,670 --> 00:52:13,599
lacking in history

1385
00:52:17,510 --> 00:52:15,680
and that's that is this idea that we're

1386
00:52:20,150 --> 00:52:17,520
we are all leading

1387
00:52:23,030 --> 00:52:20,160
rich spiritual lives

1388
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:23,040
so you know the spazian

1389
00:52:27,750 --> 00:52:25,200
is leading a rich

1390
00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:27,760
spiritual life and sure he's doing all

1391
00:52:30,630 --> 00:52:29,280
these shenanigans he's doing all these

1392
00:52:32,790 --> 00:52:30,640
other things i'll give you better a

1393
00:52:33,910 --> 00:52:32,800
better example that people i feel get

1394
00:52:37,030 --> 00:52:33,920
tired of

1395
00:52:40,549 --> 00:52:37,040
of this one too but constantine

1396
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:40,559
constantine is leading a rich spiritual

1397
00:52:45,589 --> 00:52:42,960
life even though his conversion at the

1398
00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:45,599
bridge to christianity is completely

1399
00:52:50,710 --> 00:52:48,400
fake and can be demonstrated to be fake

1400
00:52:54,150 --> 00:52:50,720
and the arch that he builds years later

1401
00:52:56,790 --> 00:52:54,160
doesn't have any christian iconry uh in

1402
00:52:58,230 --> 00:52:56,800
it anywhere which is clearly evidence

1403
00:53:01,150 --> 00:52:58,240
that there wasn't a real conversion

1404
00:53:03,349 --> 00:53:01,160
there but also his whole building of

1405
00:53:05,349 --> 00:53:03,359
constantinople which is nothing

1406
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:05,359
christian about it except when he adds

1407
00:53:07,750 --> 00:53:06,960
these fake churches at the end it's all

1408
00:53:10,390 --> 00:53:07,760
about

1409
00:53:12,549 --> 00:53:10,400
the sun god and soul invictus and all

1410
00:53:15,109 --> 00:53:12,559
the rest that stuff but the point is

1411
00:53:16,390 --> 00:53:15,119
that he is also somebody who kills his

1412
00:53:18,069 --> 00:53:16,400
son

1413
00:53:19,270 --> 00:53:18,079
because his wife comes to him and says

1414
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:19,280
hey

1415
00:53:23,190 --> 00:53:21,359
your boy there he's leaning up on me man

1416
00:53:25,670 --> 00:53:23,200
he's trying to get with me

1417
00:53:27,589 --> 00:53:25,680
and constantine goes into a rage he

1418
00:53:29,270 --> 00:53:27,599
kills his son

1419
00:53:31,270 --> 00:53:29,280
and then some of the people close to him

1420
00:53:33,190 --> 00:53:31,280
said hey your wife

1421
00:53:35,750 --> 00:53:33,200
she totally worked you man she was

1422
00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:35,760
trying to get her boy in there he never

1423
00:53:39,829 --> 00:53:37,520
did any of that stuff

1424
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:39,839
so he goes into a rage

1425
00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:42,960
and he kills his wife

1426
00:53:45,829 --> 00:53:44,160
so

1427
00:53:48,470 --> 00:53:45,839
but all along

1428
00:53:51,270 --> 00:53:48,480
here's my point he's still leading a

1429
00:53:52,950 --> 00:53:51,280
rich spiritual life when he's dying and

1430
00:53:54,549 --> 00:53:52,960
he asks the priest to come in and he's

1431
00:53:55,910 --> 00:53:54,559
wondering whether this all this

1432
00:53:57,510 --> 00:53:55,920
christian [\h__\h] that he's been

1433
00:53:59,270 --> 00:53:57,520
spinning for the longest time might

1434
00:54:01,430 --> 00:53:59,280
there be any truth to it

1435
00:54:02,790 --> 00:54:01,440
might there really be an afterlife i'm a

1436
00:54:05,109 --> 00:54:02,800
roman i've always believed in the

1437
00:54:07,670 --> 00:54:05,119
afterlife what is coming for me what is

1438
00:54:10,390 --> 00:54:07,680
my relationship to this higher

1439
00:54:13,589 --> 00:54:10,400
consciousness however it is it is always

1440
00:54:16,309 --> 00:54:13,599
on his mind it is always there because

1441
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:16,319
it's on all our minds when we go to bed

1442
00:54:20,470 --> 00:54:17,760
when we wake up at two o'clock in the

1443
00:54:23,109 --> 00:54:20,480
morning when we stare at that seedling

1444
00:54:24,870 --> 00:54:23,119
we all have the same same thing the same

1445
00:54:28,630 --> 00:54:24,880
questions so

1446
00:54:31,750 --> 00:54:28,640
history has been written by atheists for

1447
00:54:33,510 --> 00:54:31,760
atheists and it's denied this

1448
00:54:35,670 --> 00:54:33,520
fundamental reality that we all

1449
00:54:38,710 --> 00:54:35,680
experience that we're all leading these

1450
00:54:40,390 --> 00:54:38,720
complicated rich spiritual lives so

1451
00:54:43,030 --> 00:54:40,400
i i would

1452
00:54:44,870 --> 00:54:43,040
maybe i'll pause there and say i think

1453
00:54:48,470 --> 00:54:44,880
we have to be really

1454
00:54:51,430 --> 00:54:48,480
careful in analyzing history and looking

1455
00:54:53,510 --> 00:54:51,440
how the best historians do history so

1456
00:54:56,150 --> 00:54:53,520
many of them do it terribly but some of

1457
00:54:58,470 --> 00:54:56,160
them do it right

1458
00:55:00,470 --> 00:54:58,480
right well let me give you a couple bon

1459
00:55:02,470 --> 00:55:00,480
bons about constantine that that will

1460
00:55:05,349 --> 00:55:02,480
sort of flesh out this idea

1461
00:55:08,470 --> 00:55:05,359
the the arch you were referring to

1462
00:55:09,510 --> 00:55:08,480
was actually designed to align with the

1463
00:55:12,150 --> 00:55:09,520
um

1464
00:55:14,549 --> 00:55:12,160
prior flavians religious edifices that

1465
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:14,559
were there in the coliseum conflicts

1466
00:55:18,870 --> 00:55:15,359
yeah

1467
00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:18,880
so he was acknowledging the

1468
00:55:24,870 --> 00:55:21,839
spiritual perspective of his of the

1469
00:55:27,990 --> 00:55:24,880
flavian namesakes i mean he this is not

1470
00:55:29,589 --> 00:55:28,000
um the way he he restructured his arch

1471
00:55:31,109 --> 00:55:29,599
was absolutely

1472
00:55:33,190 --> 00:55:31,119
had one

1473
00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:33,200
purpose and that was to align him with

1474
00:55:36,789 --> 00:55:34,400
the uh

1475
00:55:38,150 --> 00:55:36,799
the flavians who invented christianity

1476
00:55:40,470 --> 00:55:38,160
and then

1477
00:55:43,109 --> 00:55:40,480
the thing that always has amused me

1478
00:55:44,470 --> 00:55:43,119
is his uh his burial church because what

1479
00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:44,480
he did was

1480
00:55:48,069 --> 00:55:45,599
um

1481
00:55:51,910 --> 00:55:48,079
is he gathered in

1482
00:55:54,069 --> 00:55:51,920
the relics of all of the 12 apostles

1483
00:55:56,390 --> 00:55:54,079
which were available at this time for a

1484
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:56,400
price in the roman empire but he got 12

1485
00:56:00,870 --> 00:55:57,599
of them

1486
00:56:02,390 --> 00:56:00,880
and arranged them in a circle around his

1487
00:56:05,270 --> 00:56:02,400
grave

1488
00:56:07,190 --> 00:56:05,280
so he was sort of giving a pretty nice

1489
00:56:10,069 --> 00:56:07,200
clue as to

1490
00:56:11,109 --> 00:56:10,079
who jesus christ was you see so

1491
00:56:13,750 --> 00:56:11,119
um

1492
00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:13,760
that's uh this is constantine he's you

1493
00:56:18,069 --> 00:56:15,440
know he has

1494
00:56:19,990 --> 00:56:18,079
the idea he has a rich spiritual life no

1495
00:56:21,349 --> 00:56:20,000
doubt is correct i think

1496
00:56:23,589 --> 00:56:21,359
it's just a question of how we

1497
00:56:25,990 --> 00:56:23,599
understand spiritual you know

1498
00:56:29,030 --> 00:56:26,000
so that's a fundamental question joe how

1499
00:56:31,190 --> 00:56:29,040
do we how do we understand spiritual i

1500
00:56:33,349 --> 00:56:31,200
can tell you mine but you tell me you

1501
00:56:35,109 --> 00:56:33,359
tell me yours and in particular if we're

1502
00:56:36,230 --> 00:56:35,119
going to play around with this idea that

1503
00:56:39,030 --> 00:56:36,240
the

1504
00:56:41,910 --> 00:56:39,040
history is lacking in that it fails to

1505
00:56:43,829 --> 00:56:41,920
acknowledge that the spiritual life of

1506
00:56:45,990 --> 00:56:43,839
these people is fundamental to them

1507
00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:46,000
whether it's montezuma tearing the

1508
00:56:50,710 --> 00:56:48,160
hearts out of people because some demon

1509
00:56:53,349 --> 00:56:50,720
told them to do it or whether it's the

1510
00:56:56,630 --> 00:56:53,359
most you know who pick your pick your

1511
00:56:58,390 --> 00:56:56,640
most saintly uh leader it's their it's

1512
00:57:02,789 --> 00:56:58,400
this interaction with this extended

1513
00:57:06,630 --> 00:57:04,309
well my

1514
00:57:08,549 --> 00:57:06,640
belief i mean i was raised a catholic i

1515
00:57:10,470 --> 00:57:08,559
i don't think i was ever

1516
00:57:11,910 --> 00:57:10,480
particularly devout but i did believe it

1517
00:57:13,990 --> 00:57:11,920
i mean you know when i was particularly

1518
00:57:16,150 --> 00:57:14,000
in first second grade made perfect sense

1519
00:57:18,870 --> 00:57:16,160
to me our sense but it it was

1520
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:18,880
influential but uh

1521
00:57:25,030 --> 00:57:21,200
as i've gotten older i mean i i really

1522
00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:27,829
to experience spirituality

1523
00:57:31,829 --> 00:57:30,000
is best done through the socratic method

1524
00:57:34,549 --> 00:57:31,839
i think that

1525
00:57:36,309 --> 00:57:34,559
we come into a clear understanding of

1526
00:57:39,750 --> 00:57:36,319
ourselves and

1527
00:57:40,630 --> 00:57:39,760
and have of the communion the connection

1528
00:57:44,069 --> 00:57:40,640
um

1529
00:57:46,309 --> 00:57:44,079
that is

1530
00:57:48,230 --> 00:57:46,319
you know one of the real essences of

1531
00:57:49,349 --> 00:57:48,240
what i would see is spirituality i think

1532
00:57:51,510 --> 00:57:49,359
that

1533
00:57:53,190 --> 00:57:51,520
in in isolation

1534
00:57:55,030 --> 00:57:53,200
um

1535
00:57:57,430 --> 00:57:55,040
it doesn't you know it doesn't have of

1536
00:57:59,589 --> 00:57:57,440
course social meaning um but i also

1537
00:58:02,230 --> 00:57:59,599
think it's it's that we are designed to

1538
00:58:05,030 --> 00:58:02,240
social animals and so i think that

1539
00:58:07,349 --> 00:58:05,040
spirituality needs to uh

1540
00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:07,359
you know be within that context and so i

1541
00:58:11,510 --> 00:58:09,040
think the best way to

1542
00:58:13,910 --> 00:58:11,520
achieve you know the uh the

1543
00:58:15,990 --> 00:58:13,920
sort of what as uh hegel described you

1544
00:58:17,910 --> 00:58:16,000
know as the two mirrors held up to each

1545
00:58:18,870 --> 00:58:17,920
other creating infinity

1546
00:58:25,109 --> 00:58:18,880
um

1547
00:58:26,470 --> 00:58:25,119
would knowingly be socratic you know

1548
00:58:27,829 --> 00:58:26,480
where

1549
00:58:30,390 --> 00:58:27,839
we are

1550
00:58:31,430 --> 00:58:30,400
when we can agree

1551
00:58:36,390 --> 00:58:31,440
on

1552
00:58:39,670 --> 00:58:36,400
a point of fact or or an aspect of truth

1553
00:58:42,390 --> 00:58:39,680
um and we have shared this

1554
00:58:44,470 --> 00:58:42,400
um with with one another

1555
00:58:45,430 --> 00:58:44,480
that um we are

1556
00:58:46,230 --> 00:58:45,440
at

1557
00:58:49,109 --> 00:58:46,240
um

1558
00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:49,119
the point of spirituality where we are

1559
00:58:53,510 --> 00:58:51,839
in in connection with the natural world

1560
00:58:55,190 --> 00:58:53,520
and so i think we've we've got to what i

1561
00:58:57,030 --> 00:58:55,200
would regard as the highest

1562
00:58:57,990 --> 00:58:57,040
kind of spirituality because this would

1563
00:58:59,589 --> 00:58:58,000
be

1564
00:59:03,270 --> 00:58:59,599
coming from

1565
00:59:06,150 --> 00:59:03,280
the the ethnic connections you know that

1566
00:59:07,349 --> 00:59:06,160
um from which you know our species

1567
00:59:09,430 --> 00:59:07,359
emerged

1568
00:59:11,510 --> 00:59:09,440
and so i think that they're that

1569
00:59:13,670 --> 00:59:11,520
deeply ingrained in us i

1570
00:59:15,670 --> 00:59:13,680
you know we you i had mentioned earlier

1571
00:59:17,589 --> 00:59:15,680
you know how the oligarchs use the their

1572
00:59:18,630 --> 00:59:17,599
knowledge of this to their advantage and

1573
00:59:20,710 --> 00:59:18,640
have

1574
00:59:23,430 --> 00:59:20,720
broken it to some extent

1575
00:59:25,349 --> 00:59:23,440
um but it's still there it's just that

1576
00:59:28,309 --> 00:59:25,359
it's we don't

1577
00:59:32,950 --> 00:59:28,319
recognize i think that our spirituality

1578
00:59:34,710 --> 00:59:32,960
is made more clear and dense and and um

1579
00:59:37,829 --> 00:59:34,720
and elevated

1580
00:59:39,910 --> 00:59:37,839
through one another's reasoning and and

1581
00:59:42,470 --> 00:59:39,920
understanding of the world

1582
00:59:45,030 --> 00:59:42,480
because the oligarchs have used this you

1583
00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:45,040
know that that part of our mind for

1584
00:59:49,270 --> 00:59:47,280
particularly for religion but also for

1585
00:59:51,190 --> 00:59:49,280
patriotism you know for different things

1586
00:59:54,470 --> 00:59:51,200
that uh um

1587
00:59:56,870 --> 00:59:54,480
they they need to get us to walk out

1588
00:59:59,510 --> 00:59:56,880
into the battlefield and to you know

1589
01:00:01,990 --> 00:59:59,520
create more territory for them so this

1590
01:00:04,309 --> 01:00:02,000
would be how i would would characterize

1591
01:00:07,670 --> 01:00:04,319
spirituality is it's when

1592
01:00:10,870 --> 01:00:07,680
when we um are able to um recognize one

1593
01:00:12,309 --> 01:00:10,880
another's truths in ourselves and uh and

1594
01:00:14,710 --> 01:00:12,319
particularly when we have earned it

1595
01:00:16,390 --> 01:00:14,720
through a process

1596
01:00:18,950 --> 01:00:16,400
so i think that's really interesting and

1597
01:00:22,150 --> 01:00:18,960
we could actually break that off if we

1598
01:00:24,789 --> 01:00:22,160
want at any time into a whole other

1599
01:00:26,069 --> 01:00:24,799
topic of discussion because

1600
01:00:27,349 --> 01:00:26,079
you're coming at it from a very

1601
01:00:29,829 --> 01:00:27,359
humanistic

1602
01:00:32,789 --> 01:00:29,839
standpoint and a lot of the words and

1603
01:00:35,270 --> 01:00:32,799
phrases that you do reflect that i i i

1604
01:00:37,750 --> 01:00:35,280
always find that

1605
01:00:39,109 --> 01:00:37,760
kind of inferior to the scientific you

1606
01:00:40,789 --> 01:00:39,119
know i mean first you have to start with

1607
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:40,799
the scientific is there an observable

1608
01:00:48,230 --> 01:00:44,400
phenomenon to even talk about so

1609
01:00:50,589 --> 01:00:48,240
when i talk about spirituality

1610
01:00:52,630 --> 01:00:50,599
i start with the scientific

1611
01:00:56,390 --> 01:00:52,640
understanding that

1612
01:00:58,710 --> 01:00:56,400
you are more than a biological robot and

1613
01:01:01,430 --> 01:00:58,720
that has been proven

1614
01:01:04,630 --> 01:01:01,440
so then once we take that step then we

1615
01:01:07,349 --> 01:01:04,640
have to ask how much of this extended

1616
01:01:09,750 --> 01:01:07,359
realm that we don't understand are we

1617
01:01:11,750 --> 01:01:09,760
willing to bring into

1618
01:01:16,870 --> 01:01:11,760
our worldview

1619
01:01:19,829 --> 01:01:16,880
and so when i talk about uh montezuma's

1620
01:01:21,910 --> 01:01:19,839
connection to a spiritual world i'm not

1621
01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:21,920
saying i know what the hell it is

1622
01:01:27,829 --> 01:01:24,480
but i'm saying when he says

1623
01:01:29,270 --> 01:01:27,839
that there is a spirit entity a

1624
01:01:30,789 --> 01:01:29,280
benevolent uh

1625
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:30,799
very malevolent

1626
01:01:36,150 --> 01:01:33,119
spiritual entity what we call a demon

1627
01:01:38,710 --> 01:01:36,160
then i do not dismiss that as a

1628
01:01:40,950 --> 01:01:38,720
possibility when somebody says they had

1629
01:01:43,190 --> 01:01:40,960
an encounter with what they understand

1630
01:01:46,309 --> 01:01:43,200
to be christ consciousness i don't

1631
01:01:49,589 --> 01:01:46,319
dismiss that even though i'm very

1632
01:01:52,309 --> 01:01:49,599
doubtful of a historical jesus because i

1633
01:01:55,029 --> 01:01:52,319
realize that i don't understa we are

1634
01:01:57,270 --> 01:01:55,039
going to always be limited by our

1635
01:01:59,670 --> 01:01:57,280
understanding of that extended

1636
01:02:02,230 --> 01:01:59,680
consciousness realm but the last thing

1637
01:02:04,870 --> 01:02:02,240
we want to do is deny the fact that it

1638
01:02:06,470 --> 01:02:04,880
comes into play and it comes into play

1639
01:02:09,109 --> 01:02:06,480
over and over again

1640
01:02:12,230 --> 01:02:09,119
and it's not a ma history has done the

1641
01:02:14,630 --> 01:02:12,240
thing of they lost their keys

1642
01:02:16,870 --> 01:02:14,640
in the parking lot and they're looking

1643
01:02:18,950 --> 01:02:16,880
for them over under the lamp post

1644
01:02:21,109 --> 01:02:18,960
because the lights better well you're

1645
01:02:23,510 --> 01:02:21,119
never going to find him over there so

1646
01:02:25,990 --> 01:02:23,520
one of the keys to understanding history

1647
01:02:28,069 --> 01:02:26,000
is to understand that

1648
01:02:31,109 --> 01:02:28,079
we are connected

1649
01:02:34,710 --> 01:02:31,119
to this extended consciousness realm

1650
01:02:36,950 --> 01:02:34,720
in some way that we don't understand

1651
01:02:39,510 --> 01:02:36,960
but some of the factors we do understand

1652
01:02:41,349 --> 01:02:39,520
is that number one it seems to transcend

1653
01:02:43,910 --> 01:02:41,359
space and time

1654
01:02:46,309 --> 01:02:43,920
it certainly transcends time

1655
01:02:49,510 --> 01:02:46,319
so we don't we no longer have to

1656
01:02:51,750 --> 01:02:49,520
hypothesize about bloodlines or about

1657
01:02:53,910 --> 01:02:51,760
any of the rest of this stuff there is a

1658
01:02:56,390 --> 01:02:53,920
real possibility and i would just frame

1659
01:02:59,029 --> 01:02:56,400
it up as a possibility

1660
01:03:00,390 --> 01:02:59,039
that the connection between these people

1661
01:03:04,230 --> 01:03:00,400
in history

1662
01:03:06,630 --> 01:03:04,240
is an ongoing connection with an

1663
01:03:09,829 --> 01:03:06,640
extended consciousness realm

1664
01:03:11,670 --> 01:03:09,839
that is intelligently informing them in

1665
01:03:14,309 --> 01:03:11,680
the same way

1666
01:03:17,589 --> 01:03:14,319
i say that is a more parsimonious

1667
01:03:18,789 --> 01:03:17,599
explanation for the connection we see

1668
01:03:21,829 --> 01:03:18,799
between

1669
01:03:23,349 --> 01:03:21,839
what's going on in history and how it

1670
01:03:25,750 --> 01:03:23,359
echoes with

1671
01:03:27,990 --> 01:03:25,760
our present day situation or other

1672
01:03:30,549 --> 01:03:28,000
points in history than we can look at so

1673
01:03:33,190 --> 01:03:30,559
i chalk that up as to something we can

1674
01:03:35,589 --> 01:03:33,200
kind of explore a lot further but

1675
01:03:37,349 --> 01:03:35,599
as a kind of teeing it up

1676
01:03:39,829 --> 01:03:37,359
that's where i that's where i'd kind of

1677
01:03:42,230 --> 01:03:39,839
stake my claim

1678
01:03:43,510 --> 01:03:42,240
yeah i i wouldn't disagree with that

1679
01:03:45,829 --> 01:03:43,520
position

1680
01:03:48,870 --> 01:03:45,839
the problem is only

1681
01:03:50,390 --> 01:03:48,880
you know identifying motivation because

1682
01:03:52,069 --> 01:03:50,400
the uh

1683
01:03:53,829 --> 01:03:52,079
you know history can be distorted

1684
01:03:54,950 --> 01:03:53,839
deliberately for political purposes in

1685
01:03:58,069 --> 01:03:54,960
other words

1686
01:03:58,950 --> 01:03:58,079
you know you can have artificial

1687
01:04:00,950 --> 01:03:58,960
you can

1688
01:04:02,789 --> 01:04:00,960
the leaders can lie

1689
01:04:04,630 --> 01:04:02,799
and so now you don't have the correct

1690
01:04:06,549 --> 01:04:04,640
understanding of well how did we get

1691
01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:06,559
here you know um

1692
01:04:10,950 --> 01:04:09,599
so this is a possibility but beyond that

1693
01:04:12,309 --> 01:04:10,960
yeah i would i would

1694
01:04:13,589 --> 01:04:12,319
we we were through we went through this

1695
01:04:14,789 --> 01:04:13,599
once where i totally agree with your

1696
01:04:16,150 --> 01:04:14,799
analysis

1697
01:04:19,190 --> 01:04:16,160
it's just that

1698
01:04:20,069 --> 01:04:19,200
unfortunately we do have the problem of

1699
01:04:22,549 --> 01:04:20,079
uh

1700
01:04:24,390 --> 01:04:22,559
that history can be distorted that that

1701
01:04:27,029 --> 01:04:24,400
people can deliberately lie

1702
01:04:29,029 --> 01:04:27,039
and so this is another

1703
01:04:31,029 --> 01:04:29,039
you know it's it's another aspect that

1704
01:04:32,710 --> 01:04:31,039
we have to always be aware of

1705
01:04:34,710 --> 01:04:32,720
when we're trying to understand what is

1706
01:04:35,910 --> 01:04:34,720
real i mean when you when you try to

1707
01:04:38,150 --> 01:04:35,920
understand

1708
01:04:40,950 --> 01:04:38,160
you know the the rationale behind the

1709
01:04:42,789 --> 01:04:40,960
attack on pearl harbor you know i i

1710
01:04:44,789 --> 01:04:42,799
think the uh

1711
01:04:48,069 --> 01:04:44,799
you know the kind of the influences from

1712
01:04:50,230 --> 01:04:48,079
the from what can be seen as

1713
01:04:52,470 --> 01:04:50,240
the spirit life of the individuals who

1714
01:04:55,589 --> 01:04:52,480
are involved in this decision-making

1715
01:04:56,470 --> 01:04:55,599
is is important of course you can't

1716
01:04:58,950 --> 01:04:56,480
really

1717
01:05:01,190 --> 01:04:58,960
say this that doesn't exist but you also

1718
01:05:04,390 --> 01:05:01,200
have to kind of look at the ways in

1719
01:05:05,750 --> 01:05:04,400
which this this could be a deception

1720
01:05:06,630 --> 01:05:05,760
and so

1721
01:05:08,470 --> 01:05:06,640
you know

1722
01:05:11,670 --> 01:05:08,480
in fact perhaps knowing one from the

1723
01:05:14,470 --> 01:05:11,680
other is is like the key skill that

1724
01:05:15,750 --> 01:05:14,480
we would ever teach children is

1725
01:05:16,789 --> 01:05:15,760
uh is

1726
01:05:21,190 --> 01:05:16,799
you know

1727
01:05:23,829 --> 01:05:21,200
you you certainly if if you lose the um

1728
01:05:25,029 --> 01:05:23,839
uh the spirit understanding that you're

1729
01:05:27,910 --> 01:05:25,039
describing

1730
01:05:30,309 --> 01:05:27,920
i think you as as you point out you you

1731
01:05:32,069 --> 01:05:30,319
you succumb to the idea that that is

1732
01:05:33,589 --> 01:05:32,079
certainly being given to us just for

1733
01:05:34,630 --> 01:05:33,599
social control that we're biological

1734
01:05:36,549 --> 01:05:34,640
robots

1735
01:05:38,710 --> 01:05:36,559
i mean that idea is

1736
01:05:40,150 --> 01:05:38,720
ground zero for social control

1737
01:05:42,230 --> 01:05:40,160
so if they can get people to believe it

1738
01:05:45,270 --> 01:05:42,240
then you know it's very easy from there

1739
01:05:47,029 --> 01:05:45,280
to just say okay here take your soma

1740
01:05:47,750 --> 01:05:47,039
enjoy your experience and do what i tell

1741
01:05:48,950 --> 01:05:47,760
you

1742
01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:48,960
exactly

1743
01:05:52,870 --> 01:05:50,880
as a as a function of social control

1744
01:05:54,390 --> 01:05:52,880
it's literally perfect

1745
01:05:56,950 --> 01:05:54,400
and i want to take i don't want to take

1746
01:05:58,710 --> 01:05:56,960
it too far because it i totally agree

1747
01:06:00,549 --> 01:05:58,720
with what you're saying in terms of

1748
01:06:02,150 --> 01:06:00,559
deception and there's some other places

1749
01:06:03,829 --> 01:06:02,160
we can go with that but i don't want to

1750
01:06:05,190 --> 01:06:03,839
hit too heavy on the spiritual thing

1751
01:06:07,029 --> 01:06:05,200
because that's not

1752
01:06:08,390 --> 01:06:07,039
the the core of it or i mean it's one

1753
01:06:10,549 --> 01:06:08,400
aspect of it but the other is what

1754
01:06:12,069 --> 01:06:10,559
you're talking about which is the

1755
01:06:14,549 --> 01:06:12,079
conspiratorial

1756
01:06:17,190 --> 01:06:14,559
in that you know there's these other

1757
01:06:20,150 --> 01:06:17,200
agendas going on and they're always in

1758
01:06:23,510 --> 01:06:20,160
play they're not sometimes in play

1759
01:06:26,870 --> 01:06:23,520
they're always in play anyone who has

1760
01:06:29,510 --> 01:06:26,880
amassed wealth power influence has done

1761
01:06:30,549 --> 01:06:29,520
it with conspiracy i mean it's like it's

1762
01:06:32,630 --> 01:06:30,559
another one of these things where you

1763
01:06:34,309 --> 01:06:32,640
kind of want to go when people are so

1764
01:06:36,150 --> 01:06:34,319
conditioned to say

1765
01:06:38,549 --> 01:06:36,160
god i just interviewed this couple this

1766
01:06:39,910 --> 01:06:38,559
uh father daughter

1767
01:06:41,430 --> 01:06:39,920
check this out

1768
01:06:43,910 --> 01:06:41,440
she has

1769
01:06:48,150 --> 01:06:43,920
a degree from harvard

1770
01:06:51,349 --> 01:06:48,160
and a phd from colombia

1771
01:06:53,190 --> 01:06:51,359
he teaches at columbia med school and

1772
01:06:54,870 --> 01:06:53,200
has an md

1773
01:06:57,349 --> 01:06:54,880
and they wrote this book

1774
01:06:59,589 --> 01:06:57,359
denying to the grave which is this kind

1775
01:07:00,870 --> 01:06:59,599
of why people believe word things and

1776
01:07:02,390 --> 01:07:00,880
it's a whole

1777
01:07:04,870 --> 01:07:02,400
you know

1778
01:07:06,630 --> 01:07:04,880
manifesto for shut up and do what you're

1779
01:07:09,270 --> 01:07:06,640
told and take the vaccine and wear your

1780
01:07:11,190 --> 01:07:09,280
mask and the whole thing and i it was it

1781
01:07:13,670 --> 01:07:11,200
was an uncomfortable discussion i'm glad

1782
01:07:15,990 --> 01:07:13,680
that they engaged with it engaged in it

1783
01:07:18,950 --> 01:07:16,000
but one of the chapters joe

1784
01:07:21,510 --> 01:07:18,960
was on conspiracy theories and i just i

1785
01:07:23,670 --> 01:07:21,520
i could barely read the first line of

1786
01:07:26,390 --> 01:07:23,680
her chapter without laughing right in

1787
01:07:29,349 --> 01:07:26,400
her face which i kind of did and it said

1788
01:07:31,990 --> 01:07:29,359
i'm sure that none of you have ever been

1789
01:07:34,390 --> 01:07:32,000
involved or know anyone who's been

1790
01:07:36,630 --> 01:07:34,400
involved in a conspiracy

1791
01:07:38,309 --> 01:07:36,640
and i just said and i said to the dad

1792
01:07:40,470 --> 01:07:38,319
who was obviously kind of sitting in the

1793
01:07:43,270 --> 01:07:40,480
background as an old jewish guy from new

1794
01:07:43,990 --> 01:07:43,280
york is much more worldly i said first

1795
01:07:46,950 --> 01:07:44,000
off

1796
01:07:50,150 --> 01:07:46,960
i come from chicago i grew up in chicago

1797
01:07:52,549 --> 01:07:50,160
nothing in that town gets done

1798
01:07:56,230 --> 01:07:52,559
without buying somebody off influencing

1799
01:07:57,829 --> 01:07:56,240
somebody pro it is 100 conspiracy so i

1800
01:07:59,270 --> 01:07:57,839
don't want to just dwell on the

1801
01:08:01,510 --> 01:07:59,280
spiritual thing because what you're

1802
01:08:03,750 --> 01:08:01,520
saying about the conspiracy thing

1803
01:08:05,589 --> 01:08:03,760
and the lack of

1804
01:08:07,750 --> 01:08:05,599
understanding at a deep level how

1805
01:08:10,390 --> 01:08:07,760
fundamental conspiracy is to everything

1806
01:08:12,309 --> 01:08:10,400
we look at i think is absolutely central

1807
01:08:14,470 --> 01:08:12,319
to this

1808
01:08:17,349 --> 01:08:14,480
yeah i would i would

1809
01:08:19,269 --> 01:08:17,359
actually start my analysis of uh the

1810
01:08:21,110 --> 01:08:19,279
ladies book with from the perspective

1811
01:08:23,110 --> 01:08:21,120
that she's probably engaging in a

1812
01:08:25,430 --> 01:08:23,120
conspiracy i mean that is so

1813
01:08:27,110 --> 01:08:25,440
preposterous that uh you have to wonder

1814
01:08:28,950 --> 01:08:27,120
if there's an agenda in back of it i

1815
01:08:30,789 --> 01:08:28,960
mean what what is she trying to get me

1816
01:08:31,910 --> 01:08:30,799
to believe you know it's uh

1817
01:08:33,430 --> 01:08:31,920
it is no

1818
01:08:34,630 --> 01:08:33,440
and that's where i have to talk because

1819
01:08:36,070 --> 01:08:34,640
that's a whole other topic of

1820
01:08:37,510 --> 01:08:36,080
conversation because you are the

1821
01:08:39,189 --> 01:08:37,520
original guy

1822
01:08:42,470 --> 01:08:39,199
who really

1823
01:08:44,709 --> 01:08:42,480
woke us all up to the lifetime player

1824
01:08:48,630 --> 01:08:44,719
and so another topic that we need to

1825
01:08:51,269 --> 01:08:48,640
spend a whole hour on is the subtleties

1826
01:08:52,950 --> 01:08:51,279
of the different players on the field

1827
01:08:55,669 --> 01:08:52,960
because i'll tell you what sarah gorman

1828
01:08:57,990 --> 01:08:55,679
she is not smart enough to to be that

1829
01:08:59,189 --> 01:08:58,000
she's just she's a useful idiot she is

1830
01:09:01,990 --> 01:08:59,199
the classic

1831
01:09:03,669 --> 01:09:02,000
useful idiot she is

1832
01:09:06,390 --> 01:09:03,679
she is in the position she is because

1833
01:09:09,269 --> 01:09:06,400
she just organically spews

1834
01:09:10,870 --> 01:09:09,279
nonsense that is useful for

1835
01:09:11,910 --> 01:09:10,880
what people are trying to do at some

1836
01:09:14,070 --> 01:09:11,920
level

1837
01:09:16,870 --> 01:09:14,080
well but the people who you know would

1838
01:09:19,829 --> 01:09:16,880
be able to you know determine that she

1839
01:09:20,950 --> 01:09:19,839
would be in the media i uh have have

1840
01:09:22,149 --> 01:09:20,960
perhaps a

1841
01:09:24,950 --> 01:09:22,159
they would be the origin of the

1842
01:09:27,430 --> 01:09:24,960
conspiracy but i i just think that it

1843
01:09:29,510 --> 01:09:27,440
just strikes me as silly that position

1844
01:09:31,189 --> 01:09:29,520
and uh i i would wonder if it's not

1845
01:09:32,789 --> 01:09:31,199
organic you know you talk about the

1846
01:09:36,550 --> 01:09:32,799
lifetime actor i just wanted to give

1847
01:09:39,510 --> 01:09:36,560
like a a real quick uh and easy to

1848
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:39,520
verify way of kind of seeing how it

1849
01:09:45,510 --> 01:09:43,120
works aldous huxley he gave an interview

1850
01:09:47,669 --> 01:09:45,520
with mike wallace which is online anyone

1851
01:09:50,229 --> 01:09:47,679
can go and look at it and

1852
01:09:52,550 --> 01:09:50,239
he talks about how dangerous

1853
01:09:54,870 --> 01:09:52,560
um you know the government gaining uh

1854
01:09:56,630 --> 01:09:54,880
technology that could control the mind

1855
01:09:59,270 --> 01:09:56,640
of the of the people

1856
01:10:01,110 --> 01:09:59,280
uh is and he gave all you know he comes

1857
01:10:03,750 --> 01:10:01,120
across as the kind of

1858
01:10:06,870 --> 01:10:03,760
left wing uh you know all dyslexia that

1859
01:10:09,030 --> 01:10:06,880
he's sort of well known for being um

1860
01:10:11,270 --> 01:10:09,040
okay so that's that is the public

1861
01:10:12,229 --> 01:10:11,280
perspective of him uh

1862
01:10:14,950 --> 01:10:12,239
and then

1863
01:10:17,910 --> 01:10:14,960
it as it turns out um

1864
01:10:21,669 --> 01:10:17,920
there was uh documents discovered in the

1865
01:10:23,270 --> 01:10:21,679
cache of mkultra which listed him

1866
01:10:24,790 --> 01:10:23,280
uh as

1867
01:10:25,510 --> 01:10:24,800
organizing it

1868
01:10:28,390 --> 01:10:25,520
and

1869
01:10:32,229 --> 01:10:28,400
specifically creating experiments for

1870
01:10:34,950 --> 01:10:32,239
the very purpose that he um you know had

1871
01:10:37,990 --> 01:10:34,960
gone to the public and warned us about

1872
01:10:38,709 --> 01:10:38,000
um he he gave jolly west the instruction

1873
01:10:42,310 --> 01:10:38,719
of

1874
01:10:45,350 --> 01:10:42,320
to control people's memory

1875
01:10:47,350 --> 01:10:45,360
through the use of lsd um and of course

1876
01:10:49,030 --> 01:10:47,360
you know i won't go into jolly west but

1877
01:10:50,870 --> 01:10:49,040
he just couldn't be a more malevolent

1878
01:10:53,110 --> 01:10:50,880
individual and

1879
01:10:55,030 --> 01:10:53,120
everything that he did for mk ultra was

1880
01:10:57,030 --> 01:10:55,040
uh you know was to develop mind control

1881
01:10:59,270 --> 01:10:57,040
so that the government could have uh

1882
01:11:01,189 --> 01:10:59,280
robotic control could turn us into these

1883
01:11:02,070 --> 01:11:01,199
biological robots so the but the point

1884
01:11:04,630 --> 01:11:02,080
is

1885
01:11:08,229 --> 01:11:04,640
by denying or excuse me by

1886
01:11:10,950 --> 01:11:08,239
by being the person to bring the idea of

1887
01:11:13,910 --> 01:11:10,960
of this being evil huxley was creating a

1888
01:11:16,070 --> 01:11:13,920
complete perfect camouflage for himself

1889
01:11:17,990 --> 01:11:16,080
right who would ever accuse him

1890
01:11:20,070 --> 01:11:18,000
of doing this because he's the one who

1891
01:11:22,630 --> 01:11:20,080
actually brings these ideas to us as

1892
01:11:25,110 --> 01:11:22,640
being dangerous so this is but you can

1893
01:11:26,709 --> 01:11:25,120
see how hard it is to be a citizen

1894
01:11:28,550 --> 01:11:26,719
can you see i mean it is it's just so

1895
01:11:30,470 --> 01:11:28,560
tough because

1896
01:11:32,149 --> 01:11:30,480
the the media

1897
01:11:34,390 --> 01:11:32,159
you know this was on a 60 minutes

1898
01:11:36,149 --> 01:11:34,400
interview with mike wallace i believe or

1899
01:11:38,870 --> 01:11:36,159
perhaps 60 minutes hadn't but anyways

1900
01:11:41,750 --> 01:11:38,880
mike wallace doing the interview um

1901
01:11:44,149 --> 01:11:41,760
the the media is controlled

1902
01:11:47,110 --> 01:11:44,159
by individuals who are engaged in the

1903
01:11:49,110 --> 01:11:47,120
con in the conspiracy and therefore

1904
01:11:50,630 --> 01:11:49,120
we get this information coming to us

1905
01:11:53,110 --> 01:11:50,640
from the top down

1906
01:11:56,630 --> 01:11:53,120
and it just they always have the first

1907
01:11:58,310 --> 01:11:56,640
shot at our mind you see this is why

1908
01:11:59,430 --> 01:11:58,320
just you know

1909
01:12:01,189 --> 01:11:59,440
you're

1910
01:12:04,709 --> 01:12:01,199
kind of

1911
01:12:07,189 --> 01:12:04,719
asking people to take this a different

1912
01:12:09,110 --> 01:12:07,199
way of looking at spirituality

1913
01:12:11,030 --> 01:12:09,120
man it couldn't be more time they're

1914
01:12:13,510 --> 01:12:11,040
more important because you can see how

1915
01:12:14,709 --> 01:12:13,520
valuable that would be to dealing with

1916
01:12:18,550 --> 01:12:14,719
something like

1917
01:12:20,550 --> 01:12:18,560
um huxley's uh mind control attempts at

1918
01:12:22,950 --> 01:12:20,560
us you know that

1919
01:12:24,149 --> 01:12:22,960
we would we would we would be more

1920
01:12:26,070 --> 01:12:24,159
skeptical

1921
01:12:28,070 --> 01:12:26,080
if we would just kind of open ourselves

1922
01:12:30,709 --> 01:12:28,080
up to just core

1923
01:12:33,110 --> 01:12:30,719
uh criticism of everyone who brings

1924
01:12:35,590 --> 01:12:33,120
ideas to us like that

1925
01:12:37,830 --> 01:12:35,600
yeah so i think that's gonna get as we

1926
01:12:40,149 --> 01:12:37,840
get more into this that's going to get

1927
01:12:42,709 --> 01:12:40,159
super super interesting

1928
01:12:44,709 --> 01:12:42,719
because the good stuff is all down on

1929
01:12:46,790 --> 01:12:44,719
the layers on the bottom throw out a

1930
01:12:48,070 --> 01:12:46,800
couple of names because

1931
01:12:49,910 --> 01:12:48,080
you know as part of these ongoing

1932
01:12:51,669 --> 01:12:49,920
dialogues which the more we talk about

1933
01:12:53,669 --> 01:12:51,679
more i'm super excited to do this with

1934
01:12:55,350 --> 01:12:53,679
you because you're just so

1935
01:12:57,030 --> 01:12:55,360
i just love the way you think i love

1936
01:12:59,030 --> 01:12:57,040
that mind i always have i wish i was

1937
01:13:01,910 --> 01:12:59,040
sitting across the table from you there

1938
01:13:03,270 --> 01:13:01,920
in santa barbara and uh i always said i

1939
01:13:05,430 --> 01:13:03,280
always think about doing it and then

1940
01:13:07,030 --> 01:13:05,440
it's like that four hour drive i just

1941
01:13:09,189 --> 01:13:07,040
you know i come down to san diego from

1942
01:13:10,870 --> 01:13:09,199
time to time and uh next time we do it i

1943
01:13:12,870 --> 01:13:10,880
promise you we will get together we can

1944
01:13:15,990 --> 01:13:12,880
have one of these shows face to face

1945
01:13:18,310 --> 01:13:16,000
it'd be fun great great okay the next

1946
01:13:20,149 --> 01:13:18,320
time please if you get down to san diego

1947
01:13:22,310 --> 01:13:20,159
please please do that

1948
01:13:24,870 --> 01:13:22,320
okay okay thank you and and i mean it's

1949
01:13:27,189 --> 01:13:24,880
so sincerely on air off here so joe it

1950
01:13:29,430 --> 01:13:27,199
just we don't even have to record if we

1951
01:13:31,510 --> 01:13:29,440
just go walk on the beach and just have

1952
01:13:33,270 --> 01:13:31,520
a good time

1953
01:13:35,270 --> 01:13:33,280
but i'll throw a couple of names out

1954
01:13:37,270 --> 01:13:35,280
that i definitely think we would want to

1955
01:13:38,630 --> 01:13:37,280
introduce to this

1956
01:13:40,870 --> 01:13:38,640
one is

1957
01:13:42,709 --> 01:13:40,880
colonel michael aquino do you know who

1958
01:13:45,430 --> 01:13:42,719
he is

1959
01:13:47,030 --> 01:13:45,440
okay so i think he's very very

1960
01:13:47,830 --> 01:13:47,040
interesting player

1961
01:14:02,229 --> 01:13:47,840
in

1962
01:14:04,870 --> 01:14:02,239
of

1963
01:14:07,110 --> 01:14:04,880
absurd but at the same time he's a

1964
01:14:09,669 --> 01:14:07,120
chaplain in the army and he writes the

1965
01:14:13,030 --> 01:14:09,679
manual for all the chaplains but his is

1966
01:14:14,630 --> 01:14:13,040
from a satanic perspective but

1967
01:14:17,350 --> 01:14:14,640
what was what we're supposed to

1968
01:14:21,430 --> 01:14:17,360
understand really about that i think is

1969
01:14:24,630 --> 01:14:21,440
that it was kind of meant to just

1970
01:14:26,870 --> 01:14:24,640
rile people up you know to go on donahue

1971
01:14:29,510 --> 01:14:26,880
and to you know where the ridiculous you

1972
01:14:31,110 --> 01:14:29,520
know he had these eyebrows that were

1973
01:14:34,149 --> 01:14:31,120
turned up like horns and he had this

1974
01:14:36,630 --> 01:14:34,159
little pitch on the widow's peak on in

1975
01:14:39,189 --> 01:14:36,640
this and the whole thing was just to

1976
01:14:42,070 --> 01:14:39,199
stir people up and it's traceable back

1977
01:14:45,830 --> 01:14:42,080
to his days in vietnam where he was

1978
01:14:47,910 --> 01:14:45,840
engaged in pre-mk ultra mind games where

1979
01:14:49,830 --> 01:14:47,920
they would fly in helicopters and they

1980
01:14:52,790 --> 01:14:49,840
would broadcast these

1981
01:14:54,709 --> 01:14:52,800
recordings to the viet cong saying your

1982
01:14:57,510 --> 01:14:54,719
soul will

1983
01:14:59,189 --> 01:14:57,520
wander forever when you're died on the

1984
01:15:01,030 --> 01:14:59,199
field and all this kind of deep

1985
01:15:03,430 --> 01:15:01,040
psychological [\h__\h]

1986
01:15:04,390 --> 01:15:03,440
so there's two parts to that story one

1987
01:15:05,669 --> 01:15:04,400
is the

1988
01:15:07,750 --> 01:15:05,679
part that we're talking about at one

1989
01:15:09,990 --> 01:15:07,760
level of the social part but the other

1990
01:15:11,669 --> 01:15:10,000
is he really was a satanist and he was

1991
01:15:13,510 --> 01:15:11,679
also a pedophile with his wife and

1992
01:15:15,189 --> 01:15:13,520
probably killed a bunch of kids as long

1993
01:15:17,110 --> 01:15:15,199
along with his wife being a pedophile

1994
01:15:18,709 --> 01:15:17,120
and a bunch of people testified to it

1995
01:15:20,950 --> 01:15:18,719
and they did it because they were trying

1996
01:15:22,709 --> 01:15:20,960
to connect with this extended

1997
01:15:24,709 --> 01:15:22,719
consciousness realm

1998
01:15:27,590 --> 01:15:24,719
that was

1999
01:15:29,110 --> 01:15:27,600
influencing welcoming them to to do that

2000
01:15:30,390 --> 01:15:29,120
in a way that they thought would

2001
01:15:32,149 --> 01:15:30,400
generate

2002
01:15:34,229 --> 01:15:32,159
more

2003
01:15:36,630 --> 01:15:34,239
whatever that's something to explore so

2004
01:15:37,910 --> 01:15:36,640
i just kind of stick that out there but

2005
01:15:39,910 --> 01:15:37,920
the other one and i don't know if you've

2006
01:15:41,270 --> 01:15:39,920
talked about if you've done this but we

2007
01:15:45,830 --> 01:15:41,280
will have

2008
01:15:47,750 --> 01:15:45,840
do you know who lou elizondo is

2009
01:15:49,669 --> 01:15:47,760
no i don't

2010
01:15:51,830 --> 01:15:49,679
are you from this is like you know

2011
01:15:56,229 --> 01:15:51,840
people get all worked up about covid

2012
01:15:57,669 --> 01:15:56,239
which they should no question i am not

2013
01:15:58,390 --> 01:15:57,679
minimizing that

2014
01:16:00,630 --> 01:15:58,400
but

2015
01:16:02,310 --> 01:16:00,640
have you d were you aware that just a

2016
01:16:05,350 --> 01:16:02,320
couple weeks ago

2017
01:16:07,830 --> 01:16:05,360
the pentagon published their preliminary

2018
01:16:09,510 --> 01:16:07,840
assessment of the what they're now

2019
01:16:13,110 --> 01:16:09,520
calling the uap but what we all

2020
01:16:14,870 --> 01:16:13,120
understand is the ufo phenomenon

2021
01:16:17,030 --> 01:16:14,880
no i know they've been uh kind of

2022
01:16:19,590 --> 01:16:17,040
hinting about this for the last few few

2023
01:16:21,910 --> 01:16:19,600
months yeah yeah it's it it's really

2024
01:16:22,950 --> 01:16:21,920
much much much bigger it is the biggest

2025
01:16:25,110 --> 01:16:22,960
story

2026
01:16:26,870 --> 01:16:25,120
in again you know like we were talking

2027
01:16:28,790 --> 01:16:26,880
about the beginning of our lifetime and

2028
01:16:29,669 --> 01:16:28,800
it's all just accelerated in the last 20

2029
01:16:31,590 --> 01:16:29,679
years

2030
01:16:33,350 --> 01:16:31,600
i mean we we have to keep in mind that

2031
01:16:36,870 --> 01:16:33,360
for the last 60 years the united states

2032
01:16:38,470 --> 01:16:36,880
government has killed threatened to kill

2033
01:16:40,950 --> 01:16:38,480
and uh

2034
01:16:43,750 --> 01:16:40,960
and then also

2035
01:16:46,390 --> 01:16:43,760
physically abused people for revealing

2036
01:16:49,830 --> 01:16:46,400
any secrets about their

2037
01:16:51,910 --> 01:16:49,840
understanding of uh the ufo et

2038
01:16:53,750 --> 01:16:51,920
phenomenon so all the way back to

2039
01:16:56,950 --> 01:16:53,760
roswell which was

2040
01:17:00,149 --> 01:16:56,960
real and ever real in every way but

2041
01:17:03,110 --> 01:17:00,159
the the the kind of real turning point

2042
01:17:06,390 --> 01:17:03,120
event on this was what was published in

2043
01:17:08,149 --> 01:17:06,400
the new york times in december of 2017

2044
01:17:09,669 --> 01:17:08,159
and i actually have the

2045
01:17:10,790 --> 01:17:09,679
had the fortune good fortune of

2046
01:17:13,030 --> 01:17:10,800
interviewing

2047
01:17:15,510 --> 01:17:13,040
two of the reporters

2048
01:17:18,470 --> 01:17:15,520
who published that piece

2049
01:17:20,630 --> 01:17:18,480
one is a woman named leslie kane who i

2050
01:17:23,270 --> 01:17:20,640
love and respect and she has a great

2051
01:17:26,709 --> 01:17:23,280
netflix series on

2052
01:17:29,270 --> 01:17:26,719
after death uh that's very well done

2053
01:17:30,470 --> 01:17:29,280
and the other is ralph blumenthal who is

2054
01:17:38,790 --> 01:17:30,480
a

2055
01:17:40,790 --> 01:17:38,800
to

2056
01:17:43,110 --> 01:17:40,800
work with abductees

2057
01:17:44,550 --> 01:17:43,120
way back in the 1990s and stuff like

2058
01:17:46,470 --> 01:17:44,560
that but

2059
01:17:48,790 --> 01:17:46,480
blumenthal's career at the new york

2060
01:17:51,189 --> 01:17:48,800
times is just as a reporter i mean he

2061
01:17:53,110 --> 01:17:51,199
reported on the mob he had 40-year

2062
01:17:54,149 --> 01:17:53,120
career he was

2063
01:17:56,790 --> 01:17:54,159
you know

2064
01:17:58,390 --> 01:17:56,800
he was a mainstream reporter

2065
01:18:01,669 --> 01:17:58,400
and both of these

2066
01:18:04,550 --> 01:18:01,679
people got in in my opinion got kind of

2067
01:18:05,830 --> 01:18:04,560
duped into doing this story

2068
01:18:08,390 --> 01:18:05,840
about

2069
01:18:10,709 --> 01:18:08,400
the the official rollout by the

2070
01:18:13,590 --> 01:18:10,719
government of acknowledging

2071
01:18:16,310 --> 01:18:13,600
that the ufos are real and that was done

2072
01:18:18,709 --> 01:18:16,320
in the new york times in december 2017

2073
01:18:21,110 --> 01:18:18,719
and there was a huge deal made of it but

2074
01:18:23,110 --> 01:18:21,120
the for the most part the general public

2075
01:18:25,110 --> 01:18:23,120
was like ah i already know that i've

2076
01:18:26,470 --> 01:18:25,120
seen all the movies on tv for the last

2077
01:18:28,390 --> 01:18:26,480
i've seen all the movies in the theater

2078
01:18:30,790 --> 01:18:28,400
and everything else will last 20 years

2079
01:18:32,550 --> 01:18:30,800
well they didn't stop though they kept

2080
01:18:35,030 --> 01:18:32,560
coming out with more

2081
01:18:37,270 --> 01:18:35,040
leaks and information and all the rest

2082
01:18:38,229 --> 01:18:37,280
of this stuff so we will have a good

2083
01:18:40,790 --> 01:18:38,239
time

2084
01:18:44,470 --> 01:18:40,800
talking about that whole thing

2085
01:18:46,790 --> 01:18:44,480
because that ties into a bunch of stuff

2086
01:18:50,709 --> 01:18:46,800
one there's reason to believe that one

2087
01:18:53,510 --> 01:18:50,719
of the goals of the mk ultra program was

2088
01:18:56,550 --> 01:18:53,520
to get a better handle on the

2089
01:18:58,870 --> 01:18:56,560
communication that they knew existed

2090
01:19:00,870 --> 01:18:58,880
between e.t in the extended

2091
01:19:02,709 --> 01:19:00,880
consciousness realm because et is

2092
01:19:04,550 --> 01:19:02,719
telepathic we don't know what that means

2093
01:19:06,229 --> 01:19:04,560
but we know that that's what people

2094
01:19:09,189 --> 01:19:06,239
report all the time

2095
01:19:11,030 --> 01:19:09,199
and we also know that et seems to be

2096
01:19:13,189 --> 01:19:11,040
mixed up in this space-time kind of

2097
01:19:16,149 --> 01:19:13,199
thing in a way that we don't understand

2098
01:19:17,990 --> 01:19:16,159
so it's it there's a lot of evidence

2099
01:19:19,510 --> 01:19:18,000
pointing towards and we can i'll share

2100
01:19:22,390 --> 01:19:19,520
it with you and then we can talk about

2101
01:19:24,870 --> 01:19:22,400
it including the personal account of

2102
01:19:28,630 --> 01:19:24,880
whitley strieber who was

2103
01:19:31,110 --> 01:19:28,640
you know a witness not only to e.t and a

2104
01:19:32,310 --> 01:19:31,120
personal witness and personally uh

2105
01:19:34,390 --> 01:19:32,320
attacked

2106
01:19:37,110 --> 01:19:34,400
but also

2107
01:19:40,149 --> 01:19:37,120
when he was a kid was subjected to an mk

2108
01:19:42,470 --> 01:19:40,159
ultra program that attempted to

2109
01:19:46,149 --> 01:19:42,480
create disassociative identity disorder

2110
01:19:47,110 --> 01:19:46,159
in him as a tool to weaponize this

2111
01:19:48,950 --> 01:19:47,120
kind of

2112
01:19:50,390 --> 01:19:48,960
vaulting into this extended

2113
01:19:51,990 --> 01:19:50,400
consciousness realm

2114
01:19:53,990 --> 01:19:52,000
so

2115
01:19:55,510 --> 01:19:54,000
i guess where i'm going with all that i

2116
01:19:58,070 --> 01:19:55,520
mean i don't want to say where i'm going

2117
01:20:00,229 --> 01:19:58,080
with all that that kind of minimizes it

2118
01:20:03,590 --> 01:20:00,239
this is probably

2119
01:20:06,390 --> 01:20:03,600
in my mind the biggest event that's

2120
01:20:08,390 --> 01:20:06,400
going on right now the government's

2121
01:20:10,070 --> 01:20:08,400
acknowledgement that they have

2122
01:20:11,270 --> 01:20:10,080
completely

2123
01:20:14,470 --> 01:20:11,280
lied

2124
01:20:19,590 --> 01:20:14,480
about the their knowledge of

2125
01:20:21,669 --> 01:20:19,600
et and ufos for the last 60 years is

2126
01:20:24,390 --> 01:20:21,679
probably the biggest story that there is

2127
01:20:26,629 --> 01:20:24,400
right now because along with that where

2128
01:20:27,590 --> 01:20:26,639
they're trying to take that you can take

2129
01:20:32,390 --> 01:20:27,600
that

2130
01:20:33,750 --> 01:20:32,400
can take it is to say which is what

2131
01:20:36,229 --> 01:20:33,760
they're trying to do

2132
01:20:39,110 --> 01:20:36,239
is that e.t is a threat

2133
01:20:41,430 --> 01:20:39,120
and we need to

2134
01:20:42,950 --> 01:20:41,440
treat this as a defense issue

2135
01:20:44,870 --> 01:20:42,960
the other way to take it which some

2136
01:20:47,350 --> 01:20:44,880
people are taking it is

2137
01:20:48,870 --> 01:20:47,360
et is

2138
01:20:51,110 --> 01:20:48,880
probably

2139
01:20:53,110 --> 01:20:51,120
our our source of origin in some way

2140
01:20:56,629 --> 01:20:53,120
that we don't fully understand

2141
01:20:58,070 --> 01:20:56,639
and is in some way trying to steer us

2142
01:21:00,470 --> 01:20:58,080
towards

2143
01:21:02,950 --> 01:21:00,480
not killing ourselves and the evidence

2144
01:21:04,070 --> 01:21:02,960
for that is quite substantial if you

2145
01:21:06,229 --> 01:21:04,080
ever read

2146
01:21:07,350 --> 01:21:06,239
robert hastings book

2147
01:21:10,590 --> 01:21:07,360
about

2148
01:21:13,189 --> 01:21:10,600
ufos and nukes the evidence is

2149
01:21:15,430 --> 01:21:13,199
absolutely overwhelming in its

2150
01:21:17,750 --> 01:21:15,440
eyewitness evidence of some of the

2151
01:21:19,990 --> 01:21:17,760
highest ranking military officials who

2152
01:21:22,790 --> 01:21:20,000
were there who were buried in the

2153
01:21:23,990 --> 01:21:22,800
bunkers 30 feet underground and had

2154
01:21:26,870 --> 01:21:24,000
their

2155
01:21:30,229 --> 01:21:26,880
nuclear silos shut down

2156
01:21:33,189 --> 01:21:30,239
one after another in sequence while

2157
01:21:35,350 --> 01:21:33,199
above ground they were reporting ufos

2158
01:21:38,470 --> 01:21:35,360
that were shooting beams down into the

2159
01:21:40,629 --> 01:21:38,480
silos now each one of those silos is

2160
01:21:42,470 --> 01:21:40,639
completely independent of the other

2161
01:21:44,550 --> 01:21:42,480
their power system is independent their

2162
01:21:46,310 --> 01:21:44,560
computer system is independent

2163
01:21:49,110 --> 01:21:46,320
you can imagine just anyone the

2164
01:21:52,470 --> 01:21:49,120
redundancy there is like you know crazy

2165
01:21:56,229 --> 01:21:52,480
because it's a nuclear war kind of thing

2166
01:21:57,430 --> 01:21:56,239
e.t was in complete control of that in

2167
01:22:01,669 --> 01:21:57,440
russia

2168
01:22:04,790 --> 01:22:01,679
et did the opposite they activated

2169
01:22:06,950 --> 01:22:04,800
the silos one after another after

2170
01:22:10,310 --> 01:22:06,960
another and the russians were freaking

2171
01:22:12,310 --> 01:22:10,320
out now afterwards they shut it down but

2172
01:22:15,030 --> 01:22:12,320
the point was clear

2173
01:22:18,709 --> 01:22:15,040
guys we can do whatever the [\h__\h] we want

2174
01:22:20,310 --> 01:22:18,719
with your big fancy game toys and guns

2175
01:22:22,070 --> 01:22:20,320
that you think you have

2176
01:22:23,750 --> 01:22:22,080
so

2177
01:22:25,830 --> 01:22:23,760
to me

2178
01:22:28,870 --> 01:22:25,840
i think we have to keep

2179
01:22:31,110 --> 01:22:28,880
looking you know we have to look

2180
01:22:33,830 --> 01:22:31,120
in all the ways that we're talking about

2181
01:22:35,910 --> 01:22:33,840
but i think we have to keep asking is

2182
01:22:37,910 --> 01:22:35,920
this the biggest game that's in play is

2183
01:22:40,550 --> 01:22:37,920
this the biggest game that's in play

2184
01:22:43,590 --> 01:22:40,560
what is the bigger game that might

2185
01:22:46,790 --> 01:22:43,600
really be in play and when i compare

2186
01:22:49,830 --> 01:22:46,800
what's going on with et

2187
01:22:52,390 --> 01:22:49,840
to what's going on with kovid

2188
01:22:54,470 --> 01:22:52,400
one looks like

2189
01:22:56,790 --> 01:22:54,480
kind of child's play compared to the

2190
01:23:03,910 --> 01:23:00,870
so you know joe we ought to move towards

2191
01:23:06,870 --> 01:23:03,920
wrapping up this first session because

2192
01:23:08,870 --> 01:23:06,880
we've laid out so many so many possible

2193
01:23:11,110 --> 01:23:08,880
i agree i agree and and we can like

2194
01:23:12,229 --> 01:23:11,120
compartmentalize them into smaller units

2195
01:23:14,550 --> 01:23:12,239
with um

2196
01:23:15,750 --> 01:23:14,560
so that we can go give them the depth

2197
01:23:17,590 --> 01:23:15,760
that will give the you know your

2198
01:23:18,709 --> 01:23:17,600
listeners the best understanding of each

2199
01:23:20,629 --> 01:23:18,719
of our

2200
01:23:22,229 --> 01:23:20,639
and you know our positions on these

2201
01:23:24,709 --> 01:23:22,239
things that these are the critical

2202
01:23:26,870 --> 01:23:24,719
issues you know many ways yeah yeah yeah

2203
01:23:29,910 --> 01:23:26,880
yeah so oh this is great

2204
01:23:30,950 --> 01:23:29,920
i'm so excited to go there and to do it

2205
01:23:33,910 --> 01:23:30,960
and uh

2206
01:23:36,390 --> 01:23:33,920
and i'm also excited to dive into this

2207
01:23:39,110 --> 01:23:36,400
roman history because as

2208
01:23:41,430 --> 01:23:39,120
as grim as it is in a way because it

2209
01:23:43,270 --> 01:23:41,440
does reflect on it's like looking into

2210
01:23:44,550 --> 01:23:43,280
the mirror in some ways to where we're

2211
01:23:47,590 --> 01:23:44,560
at now

2212
01:23:49,669 --> 01:23:47,600
it's also fun to go play in that roman

2213
01:23:52,709 --> 01:23:49,679
sandbox it feels a little bit less

2214
01:23:55,350 --> 01:23:52,719
threatening a little bit lighter

2215
01:23:57,830 --> 01:23:55,360
um let me give you like a bon bon uh

2216
01:24:00,709 --> 01:23:57,840
sort of like my constantine bonbon

2217
01:24:03,350 --> 01:24:00,719
you know st peters

2218
01:24:04,149 --> 01:24:03,360
has the huge uh

2219
01:24:05,910 --> 01:24:04,159
um

2220
01:24:08,310 --> 01:24:05,920
open space in front of the courtyard

2221
01:24:09,510 --> 01:24:08,320
that has the uh obelisk in the middle of

2222
01:24:12,229 --> 01:24:09,520
it

2223
01:24:13,990 --> 01:24:12,239
if you look at the vatican today

2224
01:24:16,709 --> 01:24:14,000
you know just think of it of like this

2225
01:24:18,229 --> 01:24:16,719
courtyard it's a huge courtyard that

2226
01:24:20,310 --> 01:24:18,239
in the back of saint peter's and right

2227
01:24:22,870 --> 01:24:20,320
in the middle of it they have this

2228
01:24:24,709 --> 01:24:22,880
giant obelisk egyptian thing that goes

2229
01:24:28,070 --> 01:24:24,719
straight up to the sky

2230
01:24:31,189 --> 01:24:28,080
um do you know that that is actually the

2231
01:24:33,430 --> 01:24:31,199
original flavian uh

2232
01:24:35,830 --> 01:24:33,440
chariot racing pavilion i mean they

2233
01:24:36,870 --> 01:24:35,840
literally built the vatican

2234
01:24:39,830 --> 01:24:36,880
right

2235
01:24:42,310 --> 01:24:39,840
out of the flavian palace there

2236
01:24:45,270 --> 01:24:42,320
it's just incredible and they left the

2237
01:24:46,470 --> 01:24:45,280
the it was a chariot racing arena called

2238
01:24:49,830 --> 01:24:46,480
a circus

2239
01:24:52,550 --> 01:24:49,840
and domitian had uh you know had uh

2240
01:24:55,030 --> 01:24:52,560
had had kind of refined it

2241
01:24:57,669 --> 01:24:55,040
but it was left intact and then just

2242
01:25:00,870 --> 01:24:57,679
became the vatican so i always thought

2243
01:25:02,070 --> 01:25:00,880
that was kind of amusing that that is

2244
01:25:04,470 --> 01:25:02,080
yeah you'd have

2245
01:25:07,510 --> 01:25:04,480
the flavian

2246
01:25:09,510 --> 01:25:07,520
circus as the the um

2247
01:25:10,790 --> 01:25:09,520
the basis for the vatican

2248
01:25:13,510 --> 01:25:10,800
um

2249
01:25:15,590 --> 01:25:13,520
because uh they also have the pope

2250
01:25:18,629 --> 01:25:15,600
called the pontiff maximus which was the

2251
01:25:20,950 --> 01:25:18,639
title that the flavian caesars held so

2252
01:25:21,990 --> 01:25:20,960
you can see that these guys they not

2253
01:25:24,149 --> 01:25:22,000
only

2254
01:25:26,070 --> 01:25:24,159
our guest again has been

2255
01:25:28,229 --> 01:25:26,080
oh they're just extraordinary joseph

2256
01:25:30,229 --> 01:25:28,239
atwell please check out the previous

2257
01:25:32,070 --> 01:25:30,239
interviews we've had uh

2258
01:25:33,590 --> 01:25:32,080
i think you'll enjoy them if you enjoyed

2259
01:25:37,350 --> 01:25:33,600
any part of this i think you'll enjoy

2260
01:25:40,149 --> 01:25:37,360
those and do check out joe's uh websites

2261
01:25:42,629 --> 01:25:40,159
he has a website for caesar's messiah

2262
01:25:44,550 --> 01:25:42,639
that he continually updates and jill

2263
01:25:47,270 --> 01:25:44,560
where else are you publishing some of

2264
01:25:50,790 --> 01:25:47,280
the stuff that you are continually

2265
01:25:51,669 --> 01:25:50,800
working on um you know um

2266
01:26:15,110 --> 01:25:51,679
i

2267
01:26:17,270 --> 01:26:15,120
and also

2268
01:26:19,590 --> 01:26:17,280
um one that's very relevant to our

2269
01:26:21,270 --> 01:26:19,600
current moment on the tempest and this

2270
01:26:23,350 --> 01:26:21,280
is an analysis of the of the

2271
01:26:26,070 --> 01:26:23,360
shakespearean play which is not in the

2272
01:26:28,229 --> 01:26:26,080
book on shakespeare because it is uh so

2273
01:26:30,070 --> 01:26:28,239
explosive that i didn't want to put it

2274
01:26:31,910 --> 01:26:30,080
inside the book but it is available post

2275
01:26:34,149 --> 01:26:31,920
leviano you can also just pull these

2276
01:26:34,950 --> 01:26:34,159
things up by just googling my name at

2277
01:26:37,830 --> 01:26:34,960
will

2278
01:26:39,990 --> 01:26:37,840
and the tempest are at well and catcher

2279
01:26:40,870 --> 01:26:40,000
in the rye and and you know i wanted

2280
01:26:45,270 --> 01:26:40,880
these

2281
01:26:46,870 --> 01:26:45,280
to our current moment to be available

2282
01:26:48,470 --> 01:26:46,880
for the public you know with not hidden

2283
01:26:49,750 --> 01:26:48,480
behind a paywall or anything just do

2284
01:26:51,270 --> 01:26:49,760
that and

2285
01:26:52,950 --> 01:26:51,280
and check it out and if you have

2286
01:26:56,310 --> 01:26:52,960
questions

2287
01:26:57,669 --> 01:26:56,320
just at joeatwell gmail.com

2288
01:26:59,910 --> 01:26:57,679
i get a lot of

2289
01:27:01,750 --> 01:26:59,920
emails so i can't always get back

2290
01:27:03,990 --> 01:27:01,760
immediately but i do try to respond to

2291
01:27:06,070 --> 01:27:04,000
all the emails

2292
01:27:08,229 --> 01:27:06,080
excellent joe excellent well thanks

2293
01:27:10,070 --> 01:27:08,239
again and i couldn't be more excited to

2294
01:27:12,229 --> 01:27:10,080
continue this with a series of

2295
01:27:14,470 --> 01:27:12,239
additional interviews so folks

2296
01:27:16,149 --> 01:27:14,480
stay with us for that thanks again to

2297
01:27:18,070 --> 01:27:16,159
joe well for joining me today on

2298
01:27:20,709 --> 01:27:18,080
skeptico the one question i t up from

2299
01:27:21,830 --> 01:27:20,719
this interview is the oligarch

2300
01:27:28,629 --> 01:27:21,840
question

2301
01:27:31,510 --> 01:27:28,639
what is our responsibility and what

2302
01:27:34,229 --> 01:27:31,520
power do we have against

2303
01:27:36,470 --> 01:27:34,239
the oligarch as uh joe likes to say and

2304
01:27:38,229 --> 01:27:36,480
i don't like to say but it's his word so

2305
01:27:39,110 --> 01:27:38,239
we'll go with it let me know your

2306
01:27:41,030 --> 01:27:39,120
thoughts

2307
01:27:42,390 --> 01:27:41,040
i'm gonna do more dialogues with joe

2308
01:27:44,550 --> 01:27:42,400
love this guy

2309
01:27:47,990 --> 01:27:44,560
stay with me more to come

2310
01:28:01,590 --> 01:27:48,000
till next time take care bye for now